Strains And Effects

Many people new to kratom have questions about the effects of different strains. The following table serves as a comparative base for some of the most popular strains of kratom on the market.

Click on any strain below to find more information:

BaliEuphoric and the most classic opiate like among the strains of kratom1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Maeng DaEnergizing and stimulating with pain killing effects1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Red Vein ThaiSimilar to Bali with fewer negative side effects1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Red Vein KaliSedating and more classically opiate like1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Red IndoSimilar to Red Kali and many other traditional strains1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Green IndoBalances pain relief and energy boosting qualities1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Green Vein KaliA stimulating strain which also has painkilling attributes1/2 – 3 teaspoons
White Vein KaliMore euphoric or dissociating1/2 – 3 teaspoons
White Vein ThaiMore euphoric or dissociating1/2 – 3 teaspoons
White Vein Indosimilar to red indo known for its pain relieving attributes 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Super IndoSimilar to Bali with less euphoria1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Super Green MalaysianVaries between suppliers but is typically more stimulating with little euphoria1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Ultra Enhanced IndoMost euphoric of the extracts and works well for reducing social anxiety1 gram or less (if mixed with powdered leaf)
Gold Reserve ExtractPowerful extract by applying highly concentrated kratom alkaloids back to natural kratom leaf1 gram or less (if mixed with powdered leaf)
ISOL-8 ExtractISOL-8 is an outlier and has caffeine like stimulation1 gram or less (if mixed with powdered leaf)
Natural Enhanced True ThaiMade from taking a 90% pure alkaloid extraction of Thai Kratom and reapplied to a Green Vein Thai leaf 1 gram or less (if mixed with powdered leaf)
Natural Enhanced White SumatraCreated by taking a 90% pure alkaloid extraction from white vein kratom and mixing it with White vein leaf1 gram or less (if mixed with powdered leaf)

all strainst

This Post Has 1,345 Comments

  1. New to all this Try to Kick drinking alcohol from depression, where is the best place to buy? what strain?

    1. I had an opiate addiction which is similar to alcohol addiction in many ways but also different in many ways. For me I prefer the RED MAENG DA or BALI versions. I take 4-5 Grams twice daily. It’s gives me a nice combo of warm euphoric effects combined with a mild stimulant effect similar to strong coffee. This has helped me and I would imagine it will help you as well. You’re quality of life is about to get better!! Best of luck Karen. Email me if you have any other questions.
      [email protected]
      ^—Nick D—^

    2. What strain did you find works best for your depression?

  2. Suffering from severe lower back pain and slight depression, which the depression is from lack of physical activity due to pain, I finally took a friend suggestion and with great hesitation, I tried kratom. I was extremely hesitant at first due to the negative stigma that I found while researching on the web, but I held fast and trusted my friend would not steer me in the wrong direction. Thank God I didn’t give up on my research! In short, my life changed dramatically for the better after consuming kratom! My severe back pain was extremely manageable immediately after getting on kratom! And a bonus side effect was a feeling of positive, well-being! Not like a caffeine jittery high, but a smooth increase in energy, and a dramatic “Get up and get it done” feeling!!! It literally saved my life. I even had mild thoughts of suicide prior to taking kratom. I was one of the fortunate ones who ignored the false and misleading write-ups on kratom and just listened to the results of my friends journey!
    Currently, I use two different vendors and have not found a reason to switch from those two, but i’m sure there are plenty of good sources. Mine are Happy Hippo Herbals and Purkratom. I might in the near future try a couple others just to see the quality difference. Purity and freshness is key. The only negative thing I can say about kratom is there is no concrete dosage to go by. You have to work that out on your own. I find my dosage is between 4 to 5 capsules in the morning on an empty stomach and it works within 45 minutes and usually effective during working hours. And the last negative I would mention, and I don’t even know if you could call it a negative but there are many strains and you really need to do your research and experimentation to find which strains work best for your particular situation. I have experimented with seven strings and now only use two specific strains for my energy and back pain. those two strains are white maeng da and super green indo. Kratom sounds too good to be true but the miracle is real!

  3. I am new to this. Was on Tramadol and Robaxin after falling down a flight so stairs fracturing my C2 and L1. I tolerate my pain day by day. My doctor would not prescribe anymore tramadol (which I was only taking once a day), and pain management wants to constantly inject steroids into the spine area. I feel I have a choice in how I wish to deal with pain, and not to be forced into medical procedures by insurances.

    Have been very depressed over all of this and then came across an article for Kratom.

    I have been doing my real and trying to figure out a legit place to buy from to at least try.

    Not sure which one or how much to start with when I do order. I am also thinking of buying some of the plants. If this does work for me I can see the government as always digging in and making this illegal.

    Any suggestions would be welcome. I live with back pain, neck pain and sleeplessness due do not ever being comfortable when I lay down. Pretty miserable I guess.

    Someone mentioned Golden Rule? I have also started trying CBD oil too.


    1. Be very careful it is legal and caused my ex to have Seizures and she died at 34 The only thing they found in her blood was Kratom it is highly addictive so be careful.

      1. I don’t believe this at all………UNLESS she had an allergic reaction to it. That is a very bold GENERAL statement to make about such a broad wide spectrum topic. Kratom is used for so many different reasons, and is known to have saved many lives that most likely would have ended because of an overdose from drugs. And I know for a fact, it is not addicting. SMH

        1. I have PTSD, horrible anxiety , severe depression. I was in a severe explosion, the doctors gave me 0% chance to live. I spent next 3 months in a trauma center on high doses of morphine. Everybody close around me has died a tragic death, including my wife, which yesterday marked 3 years from which opiates (heroin laced with fentanyl) took her life when she died in my arms.. Opiates completely ruined my life, its only because of kratom that my life has meaning again. I take a spoonful of kratom in the morning, then another around lunchtime. Only addictiveness about kratom is just wanting to feel the positive energy that it gives me.. I could be having the wprst day and after dosing can be the great person I once was before going thru what I have.. I also messed my back up bad at work so I’m on lots of pain all day. Kratom really helps. I like maeng da green vein. I’m free from pain, helps with my depression, ptsd and anxiety. I order right from Indonesia. I want to try the yellow maeng da next.. Ignore the hay sayers.. Just like mj, kratom is a wonder plant and should never be referred to as a drug.

          1. Murf can you give out your Indonesian vendor info? would also like to try. But don’t know what company or where to order from …our lives sound similar, thanx for any help

        2. Amen!

      2. That is the biggest load i’ve ever read!! You obviously know nothing about Kradom. My Husband had just taken a dose when, just after, ended up having a workplace injury which sent him to the hospital.
        The doctors took blood work 3 times over the course of several hours, and found NOTHING in his blood that informed them of Kradom, even though he takes it regularly. Not to mention, it is NOT ADDICTIVE!! However, it does save those whom suffer from addiction.

  4. I can’t really recommend the best Kratom to take, I’m really still experimenting with different kinds myself. I do prefer the red strains. Red Elephant seems to be a really good strain for relaxation without sedation and the headache and nausea side effects that some other strains seems to cause. I also love Maeng Da Kapaus. I take a tablespoon at a time, not sure how much that is as far as grams go. II also love Maeng Da Kapaus and only have to take a 1/2 tablespoon of it. I also have to take it on an empty stomach to get the most out of it. I like to mix it with hot tea, add an ice cube and drink it really fast with a straw. I do this bc the taste is so bad, to get it down quickly. I have 3 sellers I buy from that I get good deals from. One of them being The other two are private sellers I found on eBay. One of which actually lives nearby me. I started out buying at my local tobacco store. But at $14 an ounce I would go broke. So I would definitely recommend buying it from someone you can buy from in bulk. This is just my experience and suggestions.

    1. Hello my name is Ann. I had read your post on the Kratom science website.I admire people like you that can come out and tell the truth and there should be other options for people that are chronically ill have been sick for years but now I mean fit it also as if I was a criminal and my Dr will not help me the one that I do see but it’s not my primary care physician he passed away buy a car accident. And since then I have been looking for a doctor and no one will take me because they said my my folder or my medical records have been flagged I’m assuming it’s because he think I’ll go to the pain clinic unfortunately I was set up to go to that pain clinic not knowing the type of place it was going to be from a doctor who allowed me to walk out with gangrene and pancreatitis which I’m thankful and grateful that my husband I’m also grateful that I know that there has one doctor I can turn to and that is Jesus Christ I’m not perfect I’ve never claimed to be but I do know this there is a doctor out that for me and I pray soon that I will find him not to get pain medication but understanding what’s wrong with me and that will listen to me and I pray I can earn his Trust because there are things that have happened in my life that is caused a lot of this a lot of this negativity negativity on her level I never thought I could even begin to dream up it’s truly been a nightmare and I pray that I find one soon because I am I am losing so much more than just my eye doctor I’m running out of my medication that range from heart pills all the way up to the my pancreas have lupus thyroid there’s so much that is wrong with me I can’t name it all but I pray that you too can find the help that you need maybe People Like Us Can’t Stop being put in places that we don’t deserve pain clinics as a column all over the United States they’re not for people that are truly sick we are the ones that are paying the price of others and I pray someone reads this because to me I am being discriminated against and I guess you could say I need a good criminal lawyer and I’ve already been told that several times anyone that reads this I pray that somehow someone can see it read it and understand there are people out there that can help you and not judge you and because your records are flag meaning you go to a pain clinic or God only knows what I had a doctor I would not mention names but that’s okay cuz my only my only chance to truly find the right one is to be strong and do the best I can and I pray that you too can do the best you can because that’s all we can do those doctors get to go home to their families and they don’t have to worry about the pain because you don’t have to worry about not getting it that that it’s readily available to them all I wish is at Congress the House Representatives in the state I live in I hope some more my son my oldest son is in the air for serving his country let his country has neglected me and cause me great deal harm and physical mental and emotional and above all medical abuse and it looks like it continues until God gives me the strength and the wisdom all the prayers that I can take two of them know the people that they’re hurting other people that are truly legitimately sick I hope whoever is how I hope and pray that everything I’ve said someone will read it and maybe be able to help us may God bless

    2. A teaspoon is roughly 2-3 grams. Depending how fine it is. If it’s a heaping teaspoon then it is about 4 grams. Hope this helps 🙂

  5. It feels like the hand of God keeping me from withdrawal. I’m taking maeng da, not even sure what color, and kicking heroin. This stuff is amazing and needs to be put on blast to save all those trapped in pain and addiction.

    1. I’m about to attempt it too. I’ve got 35 capsules to start with to try and get thru the day tomorrow. Hope this works. Heroin is ruining my life. RAPIDLY

      1. Just wondering how ur journey is going. I’m four days in and kratom is helping tremendously

        1. Need advice URGENT

          I can’t post in forum so tried here

      2. So awesome i am praying for you and your success.
        You can do it

        1. Thank you Nancy. Every prayer and positive thought is greatly appreciated. Time to rebuild what I’ve so selfishly destroyed.

      3. This works! I’ve been doing it for a week now! This is a miracle!!

        1. I was addicted to lortabs and someone told me about Kratom, and thats to this wonderful plant I am completely off lortabs , I take Kratom everyday.

      4. You ok?

    2. Right! This is from God! I wish I knew about this sooner!

  6. I may have gotten a lesser quality, it doesn’t seem to have serious impact. Was on 40-40 Oxycontin with 15 mg x4 as needed for breakthrough pain. Since 2007, went from Oxy to Fentanyl and 25 miles bicycling per day, work for added distraction and purpose. Have Anesthesia Dolorosa after radiofrequency rhizotomy, a complication. 24×7 pain, severe, to my trigemenal nerve, now on the state allowed 90mmg which does little. I won’t make it if I don’t get some relief from this constant pain.

    I understand some of these folks posting here don’t understand everything, but if you’re not looking for, or offering, help in these threads, you may have a different kind of issue and may find some relief in behavioral therapy.

    1. Hello Dee!
      I have cervical spine pain from a birth defect… born w/o 3 discs, so my bones have been trying to correct the issue. I am in constant pain! I have extremely tight trapezoids, and this causes deep muscle pain.
      I had been on Oxycodone (30 mg) for over 10 yrs! One in the morning so I can function; One at bedtime so I can sleep w/o chronic pain. My tolerance is now very high to these opioids! I wanted to stop the addiction, or, as my pain doctor (enabler) calls it: dependence. Whichever. Both suck!
      My husband watched and shared w/me a Netfix documentary: “A LEAF OF FAITH” by Chris Bell. Highly recommend you watch!
      We found Kratom (Maeng Da strain) in 500 mg capsules, which is 1/2 a gram ea.
      Wierd, but we bought it at one of our local VAPE STORES, when we googled to locate. The gentleman was very sophisticated & very knowlegable! After listening to what I have been taking for so long, he suggested taking 3 capsules to start… and then, “do not be afraid to take 2 more, if you are still in pain”.
      Well, Dee, I have not taken ANY OPIOIDS since 9/15/18, and I feel great! No withdrawals, no side effects, much less pain! Additionally, I take 2 Aleves in the morning for muscles inflamation. Whatever works.
      I am having a blood draw this Fri 10/12 to check cholesterol, liver functions, etc. and I will post again after I get results.
      I hope this helps you.

      1. Amen..

      2. Christine Can you post how you made the switch over.Did you stop pain meds completely at first or did you ween off while taking Kratom? Did it take a while to feel good. Did you have to up your Kratom dose over time. I have disc problems had lower back and neck surgery, 6 months ago my doc reduced my meds in half concerned more about the new laws than my pain level.and although I can just take them when I’m miserable, it’s not enough to have everyday be ok.I need to find a way to reduce but not miserable. And then get off. It’s scary as I have been on them 10 years on and off.

        1. If I were you I’d do a taper and use the kratom when your on ur last week of taking one pill a day. I was on Morphine and oxycontin but not at the same time. Only when my tolerance got too high for one I’d switch so this last time I had been on Morphine a very long while. I didn’t think I’d ever see myself off but guess what? I did! You can too. I didn’t hear about kratom until I was off mine.

      3. Margo what strains are you using? I’m currently on 2x30mg Ms contin (morphine) and 4×10 Norco 10/325 a day. Been on for two years. Dose doesn’t cover my pain and have high tolerance. Just got $100 of kratom different strains. Curious what to start with first and how much. I have Borneo red vein, maeng da thati green and red, Bali white and red, maeng da red, Thai red, Vietnam red. Thank you in advance for your advice. Excited and eager to try.

      4. Amen!!! That’s freakin awesome! I’m trying to cut back on my norco, just got off of the pain patch fentyl, just started with Kratom and it’s been life saving for me!!!

      5. Is there any proof that the more mood enhancing strains could possibly help a person suffering from hypersexuality and depression

    2. Your final sentence here is the most succinct and effective retort to trolls that I’ve ever seen in a thread. Well said!

    3. Anything natural and not produced by them is preferable. All you self-righteous fux talking about people with addictions don’t know your ass from a hole in the ground. The government got us addicted to all this b******* from the pharmacies…. Vietnam and Afghanistan war shipping in more heroin to this country than it has ever seen. You people know what the most called for substances are to Poison Control in the US??? Aspirin and acetaminophen, but you judgy bastards probably wouldn’t care because those don’t get you high, doesn’t matter if it kills you as long as you don’t get high from whatever you’re taking, f*** you. Oh the root for pharmaceutical is pharmakeia, which is what 99% of this moron country takes. It means poison, spell, or drug. And due to the meaning/context of the other two definitions, the drug part doesn’t mean drug that helps you, it’s more like the rapey kind of knock you out and stick things in your butt kind of drug.

    4. Well here I go. First day first time using kratom. Been smoking H for a while. A gram or more a day.I sure hope this is the miracle I’ve been looking for for 25 years. I’ve tried everything from withdrawal ease to paying 20 grand to fly to so Cal and having my system flushed…but nothing’s ever worked I’ve always had intense wd. Thank you for all your comments! Because of them I bought some maeng da last night, although I’m wondering if I shouldve purchased Bali for withdrawals?? I wish you all luck and Blessings as we press on and put addiction behind us.

      1. May wanna look into red horn. I’m currently trying maeng da rn. Still waiting on the effects goodluck man.

        1. My first time with red maeng da didnt effect me til the next day and i explain it to ppl as being The Tin Man getting his oil. No pain anwhere, felt like i needed to take advantage of the Younger version of me. Better than any Motrin, tyleno, naproxen cocktail ever.You finally feel just like a normal person. I highly recommend a trial/error so you can get back to the YOU you once were even if just for 6-8 hours. No qualms, better than wasting away in your disbility. Shop n read my friends!

      2. Aaron: Don’t be afraid to take as much as you need to help with pain control. I have suffered with paraneoplastic polyneuropathy since 2002 when chemo from breast cancer took control of my life. It”s been oxycontin, morphine, oxycodone and gabapentin continuously just to function on a daily basis. The doc started weaning me from six 5ml oxycodones per day last year and I started falling due to not being able to feel my feet. Also, was getting burnt and cut fingers while cooking because I couldn’t feel in them yet the full body neuropathy was very painful. It’s difficult to explain to people how it can hurt while not being able to feel. Last winter I was introduced to Kratom and have been using it for weaning off opoids. The biggest issue with Kratom is the duration of effectiveness. It only lasts about 2-3 hours and must take 4-5 capsules evert 3 hours for it to do any good. But it DOES HELP! It gets expensive, but if the idiots in government are not using sensible laws or techniques to help people with chronic pain, this is the way it will have to be. I take 5 capsules on an empty stomach before even getting out of bed in the morning (usually 9 or 10 a.m.). If the neuropathy is really, really bad I will pop a 5ml oxycodone and I’m usually good until 1 p.m., then four more, four at 5 or 6 p.m., with five at bedtime (usually 10 or 11 p.m.). Occasionally I will need five in the middle of the night if I’m having a bad day.
        I have also been experimenting with “wild lettuce.” To date, it is just chewing the green leaves and it is VERY effective. The biggest issue with it is supply. I harvest it on dog walks but with winter coming it will not be available. There are several other herbal remedies, but haven’t tried them yet. Let me know if this info is helpful. GOOD LUCK! The people with chronic pain will need something if we are going to have any quality of life.

        1. Rebecca, thank you for taking the time to write me. You’re absolutely right I find myself taking 3 to 5 grams every 3 hours, I was concerned that it was too much. It does work and help tremendously as I am 6 days clean now. My only concern is if I’m consuming this much will I have withdrawal if I stop? Best of luck to you and I pray God heals you!!

  7. Kratom like any other drug throughout history can be abused. Benadryl, coffee, nasal spray… I like the fact that it’s natural. Then again, so is hemlock and poison ivy. Whatever you take, your body will adjust and you will need to take more for the same effect, and the more you take, the less effect it will have. Kratom has helped me. Yes, its legal and natural, but an addiction is an addiction. If you feel I you need some, always take the least effective dose possible, sparsely.

  8. I take adderall during the day to get work done and have that energized can do feeling going on so I can actually accomplish something. At nite I play music live or at home and prefer opiates in small doses to give that slightly euphoric relaxed feeling.
    What strains do you guys recommend for replacing those 2 pharms as I really dont like taking any “legal drug”/pharmaceutical. Thanks.

    1. Green maeng dai in the day red Bali/Borneo at night. Jmo

    2. white vein kali

    3. White vein

    4. Same thing here. I take green maeng da in the am instead of Adderall and red bali in pm.

  9. Hi all. I have rheumatoid arthritis, fibromyalgia and several things that cause severe pain, I also have insomnia and no energy. I am looking into kratom but I have a bunch of allergies so idk if it will hurt me. Also does it show on drug test?

    1. Anyone know best place to purchase and what type?
      Thank you

      1. Damn you found this can you not read or search on the Internet .

        1. Lynnell, you don’t have to be mean to Meg. I too am looking for the best source of Kratom too.

          1. I concur. I’m here because I’m getting conflicting info online, so I feel it must be more efficient to ask the “experts” for all of your personal recommendations and any advice anyone may be kind enough to provide. I’ve been using Red Vein Bali (I think. Might just be Red Bali) for 2 weeks now, 500mg per capsule, 3 capsules each dose x3 times a day. I can feel NO difference. I have severe anxiety and chronic back pain from 2 disc herniated and faceted arthritis in my lower back.

          2. trying to reply to sara saners

          3. Sara, that’s a really low dose(1.5g) even for a beginner. Is it safe to assume that you have been on opiates for a while? I would double(3g) or triple(4.5g) your current dose and you should feel some effects. Personally I take 20g every 4 hours. I use powder because that would be 40 capsules every 4 hours and to many gelatin capsules gives me nasty heartburn and an upset stomach.

          4. I found your reply to be very unnecessary. I have found for the most of us Kratom users to be very kind to one another because we want to help. From this point on maybe you need to keep in mind, do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

          5. There are vetted vendors listed on the FB page.

        2. Ya I’m new to kratom and yea I have found what I want to know by ”internet research” but sometimes it’s nice to hear what works for others that use it and their effects with the different stains. This is what’s wrong with the world today, everyones an internet jerk but in real life I hope you’re not this mean. People should help each other not tear them down.

          1. So I have tried a bunch of different strains, mostly red vein. Some gold some green. I avoid the white vein because it’s like speed. Green vein is the best balance between white and red. If you are looking for a good time red Kali is the best. If you want pain relief it works the best for that. But green maeng da is almost my new favorite strain I’ve tried. You will see many maeng da strains from various colors of veins. Vein is the color of the stems inside the leaves. White vein is more energizing. From my many months of experience using and experimenting with them. Maeng da means energizing yet pain relieving and when attached to a strain color it means it’s underlying cut/after peak side effects. Like white is energizing like speed. Red is more like an opiate. Gold is in between green and red more leaning on the red side. When I say colors I’m referring to the effects mainly prominent from using those strains i.e., speed, opiate, etc. Green maeng da is my only choice for green. It is stimulating yet pain relieving and somehow still feels like an opiate. No matter what strain you take this is always the same result time and time again: in low doses it’s stimulating (1-4 grams) and high doses (7-15 grams) it’s sedating. Whether it’s green red or gold. I have not tried white too extensively only because I don’t want to tweak out. My normal dose is once a day 15-20 grams and I take it with lemon juice to potentiate it (make it more potent), that is when I take straight powder. When I use capsules I still take the same amount but just with tea. Also one more thing (I know this is a lot) caffeine helps potentiate it as well VERY WELL!!! kratom and coffee are in the same species of plant. I personally use Monster Energy drink but coffee would work just fine. I’m giving you the very knowledge and wisdom of my experience in using this product. All of them at high doses have the potential to get you high, the nice thing is when you decide to use a natural plant like this you don’t have any withdrawal side effects. And if you do there very very minor compared to like regular opiates. One last little thing that I forgot to mention eat something fatty after 30-60 minutes of dosong, the fatty content helps to metabolize the alkaloid that using the permanent effects from the kratom. I hope this helps you I’m not writing off of a Blog from what someone else said I’m writing personally and strictly for my own experience. Be blessed 😊

          2. The one thing that you need to remember is with Kratom, less is more!!
            And you can and should use it without using opiates with it. Go cold Turkey and use Kratom because it will stop the effects of your opiate when using both.
            I was on percocet tens 5 A-day for almost 20 years and I went cold Turkey using red thai,
            And I never looked back.
            No one needs to be on here with a badd attitude because we’re all thankful this is available. It is a live changing alternative to opiates. If you were to the point where you are hateful then move on. Good luck everyone

        3. This is for Lynell Rayme:

          Why you have to be so nasty…that was rude if someone is coming here for information and you do not have information the just shut the hell up……was that really necessary to answer like that? Find yourself a strain of kratom for nastiness and take a double dose.

          1. Andrew,
            In your experience, what would be the absolute LEAST stimulating, yet still pain relieving strain? I’ve had back surgeries and am full of arthritis, but my body is already hyper and I cannot even drink one cup of coffee without vibrating. I need a calming and pain relieving effect.

            Thanx much,
            Greg T

          2. Well said

          3. AMEN!

          4. Amen!!!!!

      2. Where you live and proximity to stores which carry the product are going to be your first step. I am not a doctor of any type but I have used Kratom for approximately 5 years it has helped me to stop drinking as an alcoholic, just stop taking prescription opioids, and the underlying pain from multiple back and knee surgeries over the course of approximately 20 years. If you could be a little more specific I can give you my own anecdotal advice if you would like.

        1. Hey Mike I have degenerative disc diseases in my back and a bad knee and bad ankle. Came across kratom and have been trying to figure out which form would be best for pain. I’m not very old and my Dr has me on hydrocodone and tramadol for pain and not something I want to be taking all the time. What’s the best form to take??

          1. I am 18 and also have degenerative back disease. I almost exclusively use red strains, sometimes green, from a local store; red bali, red borneo, red dragon, green elephant, both red and green maeng da. I recently got interested in opms, which the store sells for a very similar price, but it does not have color named. I have been using the malay “special reserve” and it is working wonderfully for the pain. I am on about 6 grams right now and feel significantly less pain than normal, I have been getting a bit more shaky on this opms so I do believe it is stronger than average kratom. In conclusion, red strain/opms, try your best not to let tolerance build, but ultimately the thing that has helped the most with my back pain has been core strength training. I love climbing as something both fun to do and good for me physically and mentally, I use kratom sometimes to be able to go do just that. Just imo because I know your position

          2. Red Bali helps for pain really well

        2. I too am an alcoholic. I’m looking for the right strain and dosage to get through my day without wanting alcohol, feeling crabby, stressed, and after work to relax. Thanks if you could give advice.

        3. Hi can u tell me which one to use for Suboxone withdraw

          1. I myself have been taking Suboxone for 7 yrs I now use Kratom opms MaenG DA silver I take around 6 through out the day and also take couple doses of the powder of the red leaf and so far it’s working Suboxone is a tough thing to get off More so then opioids so hopefully this helps you that been my experience with Kratom

          2. Jenifer,
            I was on methadone for 3.5 years 80mg a day. I used kratom to get off and today is 40 days clean off that junk. I also have lower back pain from herniated discs. I used mang da up until recently where I heard people saying they had great success mixing a red and white or green vein, but I digress I had to take what I initially thought was a very large dose of 10 grams and come to find out that’s moderate from what I’ve read. With anything start smaller for safety and nausea reasons like 5 or 6 grams on an empty stomach, that is crucial you should start to feel the effects within 30 minutes. If in an hour you need more than take more. Also and this is off the topic if you can get some GABApentin that’s what really helped me in the beginning and through the harshest parts of withdrawal. When we are withdrawaling our brains go into fight or flight mode with neurons firing like a Tommy gun. Well gabapentin calms the brain it’s been a godsend. A couple of sleepless nights and a little restless legs (that were later both fixed by introducing kratom) has made this ol’ junkies recovery a walk in the park. Wish I knew what I know now when I was using heroin and never made the transition to methadone. But I wasn’t ready then I had to OD and die twice to get my shit straight…..

        4. Which did you use?

      3. Online or local smoke shop

      4. Hello I live in south Louisiana and they have started selling Kratom in the truck stops/gas stations around here so you might be able to find some at your local gas station or check out their website and have it sent right too ur house

    2. show up as WHAT on a drug test?

      1. Doesn’t show up and had a 10 panel test performed!

        1. Some drug tests DO test for Kratom. Just over a year ago my standard drug test under pain contract caught Kratom. Depends what facility they do the testing at.

          1. What did pain doc say about it if anything?

      2. I’m an investigator in the private sector and there is a drug test that Kratom can be identified. However it is rarely used and being legal, I would have no idea how an employer, police, etc. would be able to say anything negative or do anything because of its use.

      3. Nothing…it is a tea leaf not a drug.

    3. The best for pain relief without the boost of energy is Red Borneo. For pain with energy Red Maeng Da

      1. Ok. Ok. I got some bullshitbkratom apparently. I took 3000 mill and felt NO PAIN RELIEF at ALL. I WAS horribly moody and angry and full of indigestion leading finally to spending hours in the cammode. Really nice first experience. NOT! I purchased Nae the type that everyone is recommending. Krave Botanicals spelled with a k is the maker of this capsuled form of Kratom. I feel like it should be called scrotum because that’s about how much good it did me. Any suggestions? I paid 45 bucks 150 tabs and it’s going back to the store. Pronto. Where are all the other people who don’t like this product? It can’t be only me?!

        1. I recently purchased the KRAVE product also and im glad to know i wasnt tripping. I got the white vein and i felt absolutely nothing. I think its the manufacturer. Ill never purchase that brand again!

        2. Tee Bach, I’m so sorry! You were absolutely ripped off. Look into reputable vendors on Facebook first. Never buy from a head shop or vendor without first looking into reviews…I’m sure you’ve figured that out from your experience. I spent $45 and bought a sample pack to see what strains worked best and received 8-10 good size samples. I’m taking Kratom in place of Fentanyl, believe it or not and I couldn’t be more impressed with the pain relief I’m receiving!! It’s a miracle plant, it truly is. I hope you’re able to find a reputable source and get the relief you need soon!

          1. Can I ask you what strain of kratom you are using I’m trying to get off fentynol I been using green maeg da and it doesn’t do anything I’m using both and before it kills me I need to find something that works please tell me your secret I’m taking 5g of fetty I want off this so bad it’s ruining my life

          2. What strains & brand did you use???

        3. Most of you guys here are just starting out. There are several things you need to know. Most of what is said about Kratom on the internet is just marketing BS.

          1.) EVERY SINGLE batch of Kratom is different, no matter what color it is advertised as or what name it is sold under.

          You CANNOT trust the name of the Kratom at all. They are not consistent in any way, shape or form. Those who say stuff like, “Maeng Da is great Kratom,” are either deceiving you on purpose, or they are ignorant and have no clue with they are talking about. Many suppliers name random batches of Kratom as Maeng Da, just for marketing purposes. There is no place called Maeng Da. It is just a marketing name, plain and simple. Some Kratom has spiked leaves and suppliers will call it Horned or Maeng Da. I have tried it all and there is no noticeable difference in potency. Just like all the others it can vary widely.

          Almost all Kratom comes from Southeast Asia. The vast majority of it is from Indonesia. Borneo, Indo and Kali are all the exact same thing. Kalimantran is actually on the Island of Borneo, in Indonesia. Bali is another island over 600 miles south of Borneo. Much of the Kratom that comes from there is good, if it actually comes from there. I have only gotten one weak batch labeled as Bali.

          You can waste a ton of money finding a good batch if the supplier does not offer a satisfaction guarantee or if they are not 100% trustworthy and consistent. Even then you may have to waste some money to find the one that works best for you.

          Also, you can’t always trust the color of the vein in the Kratom (red, white, green, gold, etc). I am a “red” Kratom guy but one of the best I have ever had was a batch of white Bali. It had every good quality that Kratom can have. It was perfectly balanced, peaceful and energizing and also easy to relax and go to sleep after taking it. I have had other whites that cause anxiety and do not bring a lasting peace. That is the reason I usually go with Red. Reds can differ greatly as well. I had a Red Borneo recently that was like drinking coffee. It had all the characteristics of white Kratom.

          So how do you choose and buy Kratom, if most of what is said about it is BS?

          2.) Find a reliable supplier who either has each batch tested by real people before they sell it to the public (rare), or they allow returns and guarantee your satisfaction.

          3.) Communicate with any potential supplier before you buy from them. Tell them you are looking for a regular supplier that you can trust. Ask them what their strongest strain is, CURRENTLY. If they won’t communicate with you or answer your questions, DON”T buy from them.

          4.) Research the suppliers name and look for honest reviews. Keep in mind they can fake reviews and make their own, even on sites that are not theirs. NEVER trust reviews on a suppliers site about their Kratom. Use common sense. They either make those up or only post the positive ones. They can easily erase any negative reviews.

          Why go to all this trouble? Because MANY batches of Kratom are weak and others complete crap. It is not made in a laboratory. It is usually picked from wild trees. It depends on the time of year it was picked, the age of trees, how it is dried, how old it is, how it is stored, as well as other factors. Some suppliers, who have a lot of business, will sell weak Kratom just to get rid of it. If you complain, they will tell you to try a different kind, “because some strains work better for some individuals.” That is true, but often it is just a very weak batch and they don’t want to throw it away. I stay away from people with tons of strains. I just don’t believe they can test that many. They are not disposing of weak batches. The just give it different names and sell it anyway.

          IF you can find someone who has their batches tested BEFORE they sell them, it is worth paying a little more. I mostly buy from DG Botanicals because he has every batch tested by users, BEFORE he buys large quantities of that exact batch and sells to the public. He occasionally gets a batch that is on the weak side and sells it for a very cheap price. His cheap stuff is the quality of many suppliers normal stuff. Every batch I have bought from DG has been great for me except for one, and in that case I believe it was my body chemistry. I have tried at least 8 from DG and two of his standard strains work for me better than his premium strains. His Red Indo and White Bali have been the best for me. Others swear by his premium strains.

          I am not DG and I don’t know him personally. This is not a plug for him. I am sure there are other reliable suppliers. I have tried quite a few and got tired of throwing away Kratom so I am much more careful now. I will no longer buy from anyone other than DG, who does not offer a guarantee.

        4. You are taking way too much. Less is more with This .
          It’s not like an opiate were you just take more to get high.

    4. I’m not sure if you’ll have any allergies to kratom, try a very small amount to see. And no it doesn’t show up on drug tests as kratom is alkaloid based, and drug tests don’t read for alkaloids.

      1. All opiates are alkaloids. Yes, drug tests screen for specific target alkaloids. Yes, there is a specific test for Kratom, and no it is not commonly included on drug panels – at least not for now.

      2. Cocaine is an alkaloid. So, yes. It does.

    5. Just took a 14 panel drug test for probation and ive taken kratom every day since Monday and I passed

  10. The only thing this comment section has me hoping for is WWIII combined with the resurfacing of the bubonic plague to wipe out all you judgmental self-entitled twats. Kratom is a miracle for people and saves lives.

    1. Looking for something for chronic pain, depression and exhaustion. I don’t want to get high, I just want to feel better. Any suggestions? And then maybe is there a different type to help me fall and stay asleep without feeling groggy? Thanks for any info!!

      1. This is exactly the same as what im looking for. I hope someone experienced answers, thanks in advance!

        1. I have severe back pain due to several surgeries which includes my entire spine fused. Kratom is a life saver for me and made withdrawal from hydrocodone a piece if cake. I live kratom, I have great energy and my mood is awesome

          1. What strand did you used?

          2. What kind do you take?

          3. What strain was best for ur back pain? Did u mix like one during day one at night? Trying to no longer need my Drs prescription meds

          4. You are ridiculous! Is there anything on your body that doesn’t hurt? Allergies? The fear of hurting YOIRSELF by taking Kratom? What a whack job?! I bet you live alone with 2 cats. But it was fun to read your post. Hope you f8nd your way out of your own prison. In the meantime rolling around in your own misery is a loney life. Fear will eat you alive and prevent you from living. Don’t let it!

          5. Which one do you take?

      2. I can’t speak for anything that would treat a chronic condition, and I’m a kratom newbie, but I took a 5g dose last night of white maeng da. I had never taken kratom before, so I didn’t know what to expect. I gotta say that was the most restful, peaceful sleep I’ve had in a long time. Almost no grogginess the next morning, felt very refreshed. As I understand it one can build up a tolerance to kratom, so obviously it’s not something you would want to take every night. But I am just blown away at how soundly I slept.

        1. If you take enough of it, you’ll have a hangover from it the next day and even may feel irritable. It’s definitely a nice buzz, but it is a buzz; and like most buzzes, it’s not exactly physically healthy (for instance, like opiates, it causes constipation). I’ve taken it around 100 times, most times in Southeast Asia but also several times in the US in powder form.

      3. I recommend the Red Bali because it’s great for pain killing attributes. I also like the Green blends… Maeng Da is good to be relaxed but not too drowsy.

      4. Have you tried CBD? That has been the best avenue without the “euphoria” in my experience. Look me up on FB.

        1. You are taking way too much. Less is more with This .
          It’s not like an opiate were you just take more to get high

        2. This is not a CBD thread,
          You are aware of that right?

      5. Red bali….I noticed it was a nice mood elevator and it decreased my back pain by about 50%. Did not feel high. About 3 grams in a cup of water. Took about 30 mins or so before I felt the affects

      6. Red bali is rock for your back pain. It’ll not help you in come out from depression but at some point it’ll makes you a calm and help you in to get a good sleep .

      7. Been using for years on probation does not show up on drug test

      8. Think “green for go” and “red for stop” and get a sample pack to experiment. If you do some research, you will find that the different vein colors have varying effects of sedation versus stimulation and pain relief/euphoria/anxiety reduction and combinations thereof. Since everyone’s physiology and symptoms differ, you may need to try different combinations. Keep trying until you land on what works for you. This supplement can serve as an effective stimulant, mood elevator, sleep aid and more.

        But try to use it in moderation and only as needed. For longer term, daily use, there are a variety of other amino acids, supplements and vitamins that can help depression, CFS, anhedonia, opiate withdrawal etc. Try Ayurveda, TCM, and functional/integrative medicine information sources to educate yourself.

        Good luck.

      9. White vein Thai saved my life, no more booze, no more opiates. Literally changed me in my 30’s to a better person.

      10. I’ve been taking All strains for some time now. Red Vein is for pain. Green Vein is for Energy and White is for Night Night! It Really matters what Brand! Best ones I’ve found are Urbin Ice and Choice! I change up all the time so It keeps working. Your not going to get High on any of them.

    2. I here ya-
      Big Pharma my brother- they want to extract the alkaloids, make prescription pharmaceuticals, charge a small fortune for “new, safer pain meds, antidepressants, etc. make a few more billion dollars. Then, when the Patton runs out, lobby the FDA to push the DEA to reschedule it all and give the docs hell if they write a prescription for it. Never make me believe anything different. It’s all bullshit. It’s ashme that there are so many dumbass, uninformed waterheads out there agreeing with, and pushing shit they know absolutely nothing about.

    3. AGREED!!! Kratom allows me to enjoy life again, thank God

      1. What kind did you get?? I have back pain, sleepless nights and low energy

    4. I totally agree I absolutely LOVE kratom. It’s a life saver! It feels great and does what it’s supposed to everytime. Although I don’t condone the name calling… They sound very uneducated and unstruggled. Like people who don’t like a politician but know 0% about them…

    5. I love you! So much whining and sniveling going on here. Damn. Is it just me, or does everybody also seems to be Addicts on a very advanced level…I bet 90% of this stuff is all psychosomatic!
      God speed my courageous writer! Loved it.

      1. Tee you clearly have never suffered from an addiction or you would keep comments like that to yourself,I am a recovering heroin addict and I know how desperate and damaged it leaves people,I find you’re uneducated comment offensive,any addict on this site trying to help themselves should be praised for trying to find there own way out of one of the deepest darkest holes they could find themselves in,I hope you never find yourself in that position and if you do I hope when looking for help you find someone with more empathy than you have shown
        Regard,s P

        1. Preach it Paul. It is very easy to judge when you have never been affected by such a life altering disease.

        2. I completely agree with Paul. I didn’t start using Kratom for addiction, but my best friend did after two back surgeries and six months on heavy strong opioids. She began taking white vein Kratom for pain and was off all narcotics within one week and hasn’t used one since. I began using Kratom four years ago after I had my thyroid removed because of cancer. I was sleeping 18-20 hours a day and had horrible joint pain. Then, because of hypothyroidism depleting my calcium, I broke my ankle and shredded every ligament and was given opiates for pain. After three months on them I decided to try red vein Kratom. My pain was immediately gone. I tried green strains for energy and was once again a functional human being. I’ve had three surgeries since my thyroid removal, all due to thyroid disease, (heart ablation, hysterectomy, and gallbladder removal), and only used narcotic pain medicine for the 2-3 days in the hospital, then I began my red Kratom and was fine. Kratom has been the ONLY thing, (after eight doctors and $40,000 in doctor visits, lab work, medicine, and supplements to try and feel better) that has given me back some quality of life. I know two people who were heroin addicts; one for two years and one for eight years who are now clean because of Kratom. It acts on the opioid pain receptors in the brain like opiates do but without the addiction or chance of overdose and death. It is 100% safe. There have been ZERO deaths attributed to Kratom. The six people who died who had Kratom in their system also had high levels of either Xanax or another strong drug.
          Unless you’ve been in a situation where you’re desperate for help and you’ve found that Kratom saved you, don’t make stupid comments about things you know nothing about.

      2. Many conditions are physical as well as psychosomatic. If you feel something is wrong with your body, so does your mind. There is a powerful connection. Even if someone’s problems are “in their head” it does not make it any less real to the person experiencing it.
        A problem is a problem; as people we usually seek out a way to solve them!
        I have no experience with Kratom, just what I’ve read, and have seen on TV.
        I too have a couple chronic health issues, and am seeking better management. I wish any and all sufferers all the best, and thank you for sharing your stories, and thank you to those that are always willing to help others through their struggles!!

      3. Go fuck yourself. Yeah there are a lot of addicts here. This is a tool we can use to get healthy and be happy. Go to another corner of the internet and let us have this one.

      4. You are an evil spirit. I hope you have a better day . You should tried love it outweighs the hate you’re spewing

    6. No Needs for Rudeness to Others for asking a question.

  11. Yeah, Boy!! Livin’ in the USA!! Insurance won’t pay for mental health. Insurance won’t pay for physical therapy. But they’ll put you on opioid pain killers and then make you pee in a cup for a $3000 drug test every three months. Get you addicted and then you’re a slave. This is the only “civilized” country in the world that won’t provide decent health care for its citizens. I’ve been on pain meds for ten years for severe chronic back pain, degenerative disc disease, spondylithesis, nerve damage, etc etc etc. now I can’t even get an appt with a pain specialist. Thank GOD I found kratom or I don’t know what I’d do! Certainly wouldn’t be working and being a productive member of society.

    1. Hell yes!

    2. Omg I agree they won’t help you fix your problems but also don’t want us taking meds. Doctors have way to many patients these days and they are not able to give the care they should be giving. Because there are people who abuse it there are many more people who needs the help. We can bring a damn heroin addict back to life so they are free to use with no worries but we can’t help productive people who work jobs and have real pain. We are all cut off because of the bad apples so therefore they better expect we will be going to other things because THE PAIN IS REAL AND I DO THAT OR I WANNA HURT MYSELF I hurt so bad!

      1. Don’t even judge an addict. It’s so easy to fall into addiction…It can happen to the best of us! Kratom is for opiate withdrawal too…and everyone deserves another chance.

        1. Exactly! I was a heavy addict and shooting unbelievable amounts of opiates. Until I went to prison. That was the best thing that ever happened to me. Ive been completely sober for over 9 years. I did aweful things to people I love to support my addiction. Thank God they all gave me a second chance, now life us better than I could’ve imagined. Everyone deserves a second chance!!

        2. Which one

        3. I think what tt meant was that there is help for addicts who abuse the system but the rest of us have no help. I have two siblings who suffer from addiction and they’ve had more help than I have almost on my whole life from the system . I work every single day since I was a teen to support myself with barely any help , “normal” people are left to fend for ourselves even when we are in pain and choose not to go the wrong way. We deserve the same help as anyone troubled! Addiction is sad and props to whoever over comes it but no one deserves to be judged. Just because someone is struggling with addiction shouldn’t give them priority over the rest of us who struggle. I’m on here to find a strain for pain as I was in an accident and still trying to work want to get back into the gym my body is hurting so bad life sucks for me. That’s why I’m here

          1. Oh Paul…you know nothing of which you speak.
            Clearly you don’t know an Addict when you see one (or read one in this case.) I could whine and whine and whine and act like a Victim or a recovering heroine addict, but I chose to work from a positive place and focus on where I’m going instead of festering and rotting in the past. It makes it so much harder on yourself and everyone around you. Why is it so necessary to list all the prescriptions by name and dosage along with diagnosis (personal shit we don’t need to hear about) just to make yourself sound more VALID. It’s like the game of OneUpManship. Like a competition for who has the most pain and suffering. Go to a meeting! Truly this is not the forum for all this feeling sorry for yourself and each other. Empathy is wonderful. Sympathy and pity is bullshit.
            Educated? Yes, I am. Very.

      2. This is so true!!!

      3. This is EXCATLY HOW I feel. I won’t apologize for finding my relief elsewhere. Without having discovered this miracle (kratom) I probably would have already hurt myself. My pain was so bad I didn’t want to live anymore.

    3. Amen!!! I’ve been on opioid pain killers for 10 years because of severe back issues. I’ve had a fusion and disc replacement in 2007 and I’m still in pain. The last 4 years I’ve been bedridden and in a wheelchair because Insurance was fine with me taking 150mgs a day of pain meds, but not approving the surgeries I needed. Finally a special person paid for both surgeries to fuse my si joints and that pain is gone, but my lower back pain keeps getting worse. I wanted off my pain meds and I’ve been completely off for 30 days today. I started taking a mixture of a red and green strain of Kratom just 3 days ago. No pain, my withdrawal symptoms that I was still experiencing because I’d been on opioids for 10 years are gone, and I’m finally sleeping for 6 straight hours at a time, instead of 2-3 because I’ve been taking another strain of Kratom to help me sleep. I don’t even spend what I spent on 1 of my pain meds for the Kratom I need and it lasts me over a month. I’m finally living and not just existing in bed day after day.

      1. That’s a great success story. I’m glad to see things working out for you.

      2. Lisa S, what blends are u using & where do u get them from? I’m bedridden also & stuck on pain meds. Just started Kratom today, but would love advice by someone who’s been there!

      3. I feel your pain. I have been taking opioids for 30 years for pain in spine cervical lombar. I found this through a movie. Thankfully I hope i can pay out of pocket so I can get off these life changing opioids. I hope you do well I read your post and almost cryied knowing what you are going through. I hope it keeps working for you. I reed that you have to change it around so your brain dose not get used to it and it becomes ineffective so keep changing the red white and green by mixing so you trix your brain.

        Good luckLisa

      4. What strains do you take for your pain and for sleep?

      5. I agree..I’m going thru opioid withdrawal for 4 days now..I took kramton for the first time about an hour ago…my withdrawal symptoms are gone..I am able to function..thank god..

        1. CBD can also help with withdrawals and pain.

          1. I tried it and it didn’t help a bit

      6. That’s amazing Lisa! AMEN! I have similar issues as you. What strains are you using during the day/night to find relief from the aforementioned? Thanks in advance for your reply. I’ve been using Kratom flr the past week. It’s helping me so much, beyond words!

    4. You are absoulutly right ive been on pain meds. For about a year and just last week my doctor says he needs to cut me because of regulations! Unbeliveable because they got caught passing out to ppl who don’t need them so ppl like us have to suffer! B.s….unfortunatly they are trying to get there hands on kratom too smmfh buy them will you can…good luck

      1. Big mistake girl they find any reason they can to take them away from you. i called my doctor a —-y for not standing up to his rights as a doctor. this all sucks so bad if they take it away from me its the end of me. I could not pay for leaves and need insurance to pay for opioids. What is the country doing/

    5. Which blend do you take? I have 3 bulging discs with spurs in my neck, 2 slipped discs in my back, pinched nerve in my shoulder, fibromyalgia. I’m in constant pain, I take pain meds and muscle relaxers but I don’t like how they make me feel like I’m high as hell. I’ve been taking the ex they sale here, but I’m wondering if a different blend would be better.

      1. I take Kratom daily for herniated discs in my back I have tried many different strains the best one’s in my opinion is Red Bali, Red Thai, Red Horn. My absolute favorite is red thai great pain reliever, nice mood uplifting, more stimulating that the previous two I mentioned but for me it’s been a godsend! Hope this helps

    6. Which kind works the best for pain with some energy? Ive had 3 back surgeries and am currently winging myself off of methadone. I know its horrible to say but i like the way the methadone takes the pain away and makes me feel.

      1. Mang Da is the best for pain and energy

      2. Nicole: Why would you think it’s “horrible” to like not being in pain and feeling good? I’ve been on methadone for over 20 years, tried to get off it several times, but failed. Now I have to take thyroxine too, because I became hypothyroid during my last attempt to detoxify off methadone, which I did too fast. It’s just a metabolic disorder, not a moral failing, and if it makes you feel better, that means it’s working!

        I took some Bali Red kratom yesterday, and barely felt it, so tonight I took a heaping teaspoon, and some kava kava too, which is making me feel better. I’ve been on 40mg. of methadone for 20 years, so that likely partially blocks some of the effect of kratom. I use medicinal cannabis too, including a strain that doesn’t get you stoned, which I got for my dog’s use, but I like it too.

    7. which strain are you using? i also experience chronic back pain??

    8. Hi really hoping to get my mom some serious help!!! She’s detoxed from pain pills but because of her 7 herniated disc in her back and 4 ruptured disc in her neck she still need help with pain. I would really appreciate some input on which strain you used and what it did for you and to you. Thank you for your help! Anyone please ! It’s hard to see her like this.

    9. what sprain do you take?

    10. I love you! So much whining and sniveling going on here. Damn. Is it just me, or does everybody also seems to be Addicts on a very advanced level…I bet 90% of this stuff is all psychosomatic!
      God speed my courageous writer! Loved it.

      1. Psychosomatic slipped discs, back surgeries, car accidents? The pain these cause? Wanting something besides lying in bed day after day? Or the ‘advanced addicts that were given strong painkillers and thats it? No actual treatment? Then had that yanked away or are otherwise trying to find alternatives?
        I can personally make it to the restroom myself if i crawl and dont mind it taking about 45 min round trip. So no right to snivel here. So which are you refering to? Or are you just so bad off that putting down others in a way that doesnt even make sense the only way to feel good about yourself?

        1. Amy, while there are 5 car accidents every minute I find it hard to believe that everyone here has such horrendous incapacitating pain. I take my hat off to those people who offer their strength through positive, hopeful solution oriented verbiage. This feels like a bitchfest gone whimpy. I have been in horrible horseback riding accidents that left me with permanent injuries. Yep PERMANENT. I DONT TAKE ANY PILLS, SMOKE POT, SHOOT HERIONE OR GUSTLE METHADONE. I cry alot though. But not on websites and not while I am busy running my two small businesses.
          I’m just saying…
          Sadly Kratom didn’t work at all for me. Made me feel like shit. Like a BIGGER MORE TOXIC bitch than I was before. Maybe a reaction with my serotonin? Bummer

          1. What a judgemental horrible piece of work you are.You don’t seem to realise that you are the one who sounds miles out of place here.If you have such a problem with people suffering from addiction,you should have the basic intelligence to realise this is the last place you should be posting.
            You sound like you would be much more at home on an NRA site or some fundamentalist right wing religious site.People are using Kratom to try and get their lives together,which is commendable,whilst you are judging people for that on a Kratom discussion?
            Real nasty piece of work if your posts are anything to go by.

          2. Then get off rhe kratom site and leave it to those of us willing to give positive advice and support and quit putting down ppl who are trying to better themselves and their lives

          3. Then why are you on here? Move on because there are plenty of people who have been saved by this and we don’t need someone on here b****’s in that everybody is a whimp.

    11. My God, I am so happy for you.

  12. Hi guys! I’ve learned a lot reading all these comments, but I do have a few questions.

    Does anyone have experience with the store cbd/kratom, how good their product is?
    Has anyone noticed any sexual side effects, good or bad, with any particular strain? I tend to have very low lebido and wondering if any of the strains would hurt or help that.
    Do you guys worry about the liver effects of kratom? Is there anything that can be done to offset that? My husband has, quite literally, 24-7 migraines and uses cbd on decent days, kratom on bad days. However, due to previous alcohol abuse, his liver is already pretty messed up and it scares me what I’ve read about kratom and liver function.

    How much of the red horn is safe to take in a day generally? Like would it be safe to take 5 capsules and then another five twelve hours later?
    Thank you for any insight!

    1. i had side effects from kratom that made my woman happier. win win

      1. What kind did you take?

        1. The green maedi da jumbo capsules.

          1. I have the capsules too. The dosage on the bag says 8 at a time. Seems like too much. I tske 2 at a time and it seems to make me sleepy and dragging butt. I have back pain and would love to feel uplifted and energetic. For now, i would love not take pain pills but yet i want to feel like a human being. Whats your opinion?

    2. Find me onFacebook. I will help you andyour hubs with migrains and cbd.

    3. I have taken kratom I am just doing research. Have your husband look into getting his daith pierced! I got mine done in February and I have only had 3 migraines and they were hangovers!

    4. When I drink the liquid kratom o.p.m.s it really boosts my sex drive..its a lil pricey tho

  13. Hi all – I am new to the kratom experience, so please excuse my ignorance in asking probably the same damn questions everyone else did. I am detoxing (AGAIN) off a variety of opioids (methadone, dilaudid, vicodin, oxycontin, morphine, etc…3 surgeries in 3 years). Opioids for me not only relieved pain, but reduced my social anxiety, made me bubbly and friendly. IS there a strain that will do the same (reduce pain and reduce anxiety), while also perhaps giving at least a small amount of the “high” effect that some of the opioids create? Also, the only places that sell kratom near me are head shops…not sure if those versions of Kratom are good quality or not. Thanks for the info.

    1. Aaron, from what I’ve read so far Bali Kratom is the most opiate-like strain, particularly the red one. I haven’t tried straight Bali myself as I’m kinda new as well. Most vendors sell this strain so a quick search for Kratom vendors reddit should help you find a good vendor. Prices are a lot cheaper online and the quality of headshop Kratom is questionable. As you experiment more you’ll find the right dose and strains that work for you.

    2. Aaron;
      Like you, I am a pain patient. I was on Dilaudid, Methadone, MS Contin and Valium. I also have ADD and was taking Vyvanse and Adderal. A hella cocktail to be sure. I had the exact same experience as you. I got off methadone a year ago by using Levorphanol. This is a very old opiate that has been re-approved for use. I have used white, green and red. The red is what you’re looking for, the Red Bali. I am off ALL pharmaceuticals now. My ADD is better, my pain ( I have CRPS. It’s said to be the single most painful disease known to man, worse than cancer, amputations and natural childbirth.) is NEARLY UNDECTABLE. If this stuff can kill what I feel, and I was in line for a dilaudid pump to be implanted- it will help you. I also have PTSD, panic anxiety disorder and major depression. I have gone from being an absolute wreck to feeling better than I have in YEARS, all because of Kratom. Should you decide to take it, please put in a call to Congress like I did and tell them that if they take Kratom off the market you will vote them OUT. Leave it to the frigging government to try to make a lead illegal. ((Sighs in disgust)) Try this stuff. Come off the drugs COLD TURKEY, the Kratom will keep you from being sick. Trust me, I know. Oh, I was on Suboxone as well, and I felt nothing. No sweats, running to the bathroom ever five minutes, long nights “kicking the sheets”- basically what we all live in fear of when enslaved by pharmaceutical drugs. One last piece of advice: buy in bulk. I have found kilos for about 70.00-120.00. It’s ruinously expensive to buy a little at a time. A kilo should last you a month to two months depending on how much to take. WAAY cheaper than scrambling for meds and being afraid all the time! Good health is around the corner…Lori Z Mcintosh

      1. oh poor poor you… :s

        1. What kind of sadist are you???

        2. GTFOH if you’re going to be such a bitch. You likely wouldn’t last one day with severe chronic pain symptoms without crying your way into an ED. Go back to Facebook and your selfies with 100 filters.

          Why are you even here? Let the adults in the room continue this conversation. Say hi to your Mom for me.

          1. Tracey thank You for putting dumbass i her place, some people just dont know any other way of life other than tha ass they are. love you and wish you well !!!

      2. I’ve had a very similar experience. I also was on MS Continued and Methylphenidate. I suffer from a neurological disorder Neurofibromatosis. I have many tumors in my body and have had 14 surgeries over the last 25 years. With the Red Bali I no longer need and opiate pain meds. Kratom has saved my life. If it’s made illegal I don’t know what I’ll do.

        1. You should stock up now before it gets banned!

      3. Thanks, Lori. Can you recommend a good website and a good strain to try for this type of relief?

      4. WTF?! While I’m certainly glad Kratom helped you…. COME THE FUCK ON! People like you are the REASON the FDA wants a ban in Kratom! Because of you people “looking for a buz” and I’m very sorry you have a pain disease but DONT EVER say it’s more painful than Cancer… or anything else you HAVENT had! It’s disgusting that those of us who have been unfortunate enough to live in debilitating chronic pain have to even be going through all the BS hoops we are because SOME PEOPLE aren’t taking their pain medicine AS DIRECTED! I’m in debilitating pain every day, and though medicine has NEVER taken my pain away.. it helped keep the edge off enough to function.. I NEVER ABUSED MY MEDS…. but because of people like you we have to think about so much more now than we should. Listen, and this is for the seeker you were giving such great advice to. Kratom is to help people have a quality of life NOT TO FUEL ADDICTS!! People like you are part of the reason we are now FIGHTING to keep Kratom legal!! GO TO REHAB…. get your fucking heads straight first.. then if Kratom is something that helps your pain and anxiety and whatever else your DOCTOR says you have going on and he sees that Kratom is useful then by all means but PLEASE, PLEASE, for the love of God…. DONT post BS like and invite Addicts to take Kratom to GET HIGH….. that’s NOT Kratom purpose in this world… it’s a Godsend for those of us who need it to enjoy life…. not “get high”…. Glad your off all that shit, I would get a second opinion.

        1. You are no one to judge anyone’s pain. Your situation is your Revelyn what is relevant is the pain each person feels in a minute to win and the kids to off of drugs it’s a win-win chill or pay the pharmaceutical company judge not least yee be judged

          1. Damn auto correct on our keyboards! Wanna try that again? Ya’ll spun and write like you are high as f%-+-.

        2. I think People were asking what is most like opiod use because they are trying to stop taking opioids, trying to “get their head straight.” Sometimes going to rehab is not easy especially for single parents. Good people become addicted to substances, good people get terrible sickness and disease, good people make big mistakes in their life. Everyone deserves to have a better quality of life regardless of their life choices or circumstances. Your post made me cringe it was so nasty. Negativity breads internally within you and can affect your health.

          1. So very well said & I 2nd that! I cringed as well… even when I read it again the 2nd time. This isn’t the forum for judgements but rather necessary Q&A. All of us are looking to improve our quality of life. I’m sick of being in pain every day when I wake up, all through the day and when my head hits the pillow as well. In addition, I am “seeking” Kratom because I am sick to death of doctors, big pharma, chasing pain meds so I can have a break from constant agony. Can cetlrtain people here stfu judging others and keep the convo Q&A driven. I would give my left arm for something, anything that keeps me from suffering in agony every day for the rest of my life and from using street drugs again. Stereotypical thinking about addiction is such an odious position.. not well thought out I might add. Addiction is an illness too, complete with accompanying illness such as chronic depression, anxiety, mania and that’s just a quick mental health blurp. If you want to be angry about addiction, then take your complaints right to the FDA and Government where you’ll find zero movements for real relief such as long term individual therapy or God forbid loving support. Society does not encourage or support therapeutic healing for addicts when that’s The most effective. It doesn’t make any sense. The prison system is full of broken people with broken lives and broken families. I’d wager that kratom would be very helpful in change with progress to improve quality of life as a key. I personally suffer with both pain and addiction so your Damn right I want healthier alternatives. And you best believe that we are equal and I am equally as entitled to relief from pain as you or the next. At what point does society finally evolve from blaming addicts. Stop pointing the finger and instead be supportive of each individuals entitlement and journey to relief. Might wanna get some therapy for that projecting or at least address it before looking down your nose. You think of yourself more highly than you ought Shanna. Does it ever occur to you that some addicts are self-medicating because they can’t get help through doctors to manage their pain? I’ve probably got another 30 years left alive, God willing, and I will be damned if I shut up or stand down over being able to get the same treatment for moderate to severe pain as everyone else suffering. It doesn’t make any sense. My doctor told me I don’t want narcotics because they’re addictive, I told him horrible pain is addicted to me, so maybe I do. On a lighter note, I wish each and every one of you and your loved ones a healthy, pain free journey. Best of luck!

          2. Amen! I can relate. Good words chosen.

        3. You seem like a cunt. There’s nothing wrong with getting high. Cannabis, kratom, alcohol. There’s no reason any one of those should be more socially acceptable than the other as far as having a good time goes, but kratom and cannabis have incredible medical benefits and to attempt to deny those to people is fucking heinous.

          1. You are so right! Alcohol kills people everyday and many innocent people! People don’t die from smoking pot but alcohol is legal and pots not. The world is INSANE!
            There are so many people turning to these options because there are no other options for people who are truly hurting everyday. I would rather smoke pot or take Kratom then wanting to actually kill myself because my life is taken over by pain and my kid wants his mom back! So fuck every negative insulting person on here who doesn’t know someone else’s story.

        4. Thank you Shanna. My life has been pure hell for the last 3 years suffering with RA, Fibromyalgia, migraines, which I had already completely cold Turkey got myself off pain medication. Then…I got sick. With the worst pain in my life. It was worse than childbirth pain. And it has been compared to cancer pain. I have pancreatic duct disconnection syndrome, with chronic pancreatitis. I have wanted to die several times over. I was in and out of hospitals every 2-3 weeks on IV medications and once home, having to get off the pain meds and still be in excruciating pain. I am now preparing to have part of my pancreas and spleen removed. They have already taken my gallbladder and gone in by scope several times. It wasnt until I found the kratom that just took the edge off from the pain, that I actually felt like I was going to make it through all of this. Kratom is a miracle for those of us that truly suffer. It’s not for getting high. If people want to get high, go find your crap on the streets like everyone else. That way it doesnt effect those of us that are trying to live our lives like normal people.

        5. Apparently it does NOT work on anger issues…

          1. Thats funny

          2. That WAS funny.

        6. Stop apologizing to your captors while condemning your fellow sufferers. NO ONE has the right to tell anyone how severe their pain is and NO ONE should be appeased for regulating my life! Who the fuck gave you that right! We accept that the DEA IS NOW AN UNELECTED, LEGISLATIVE BODY! (This agency was created by the sociopath Richard Nixon to combat–not drugs–but Vietnam war protesters, who also happen to use drugs to escape the madness (this comes from H.R. Haldermann’s (Nixon White House Chief of Staff) memoir, where he states that “you can’t arrest someone from being against the war but you could for drugs. [It was perceived that] Blacks used heroin and Whites used marijuana.” Right or wrong, both drugs were classified as Schedule I – no medical use or research allowed. So, even you are a mainstream asshole, read the stuff that MAINSTREAM has published!

        7. Love your tenacity. Had someone been as bold as you on my side I probably would have never gotten mentally addicted to opioids to begin with. Many many melanoma cancer surgeries later I finally made the choice to go off them and my dr put me on suboxone. Was on that for a year and weened off. Since I’ve been off of everything now for only 4 mo I’m relearning who I am. Opioids almost took my life and nobody knew. I was a silent addict I guess you could say. I bought a bottle of the green mae da (spelling) and have been taking 3 capsules in the morning and 3 in the afternoon. The bottle doesn’t come with directions so I’m kimda guessing at what to take. Mornings are the worst for me. My body aches and I have zero energy since being off everything. I’m a believer in Kratom as I’ve noticed about 30 minutes into taking them I don’t feel sooo tired and achey.
          Do you know how much a person can take to get through the day without the “high” people are wanting. That very thinking of wanting the buzz is where addiction starts. I know bc I’ve been there. I just want my former life back before opioids almost took it.
          Thank you and have a Blessed day.

        8. Shanna I completely agree. I was thinking the same thing as I scrolled. I’m currently house bound almost bedridden. I’ve been on meds for years and like you, they don’t end the pain and honestly I’m tired of them and the bullshit we now have to deal with. I’ve been investigating kratom. Sadly my main concern is starting to use it, having it work, and then it gets banned or they make it’s components into a controlled pharmaceutacil. Nonetheless,, I may try. Can you give me info on a reputable seller, it’s my next big concern

        9. What about the addicts who are trying Kratom to get their lives together or those who have been successful and can offer advice?
          I think most addicts trying Kratom are doing it to stop their addiction,and people like you think you have the right to judge but trust me,much as you like to think that’s the case,you’re the one who sounds like you’re getting a buzz from something which makes you talk nonsense.

      5. Thank you so much for your post. I am an opiate addict who has been on 2 mg of suboxone a day for 7 years. Kaiser has been unable to fill my script due to back order issues and even at a low dose, i have had withdrawal symptoms that leave me painfully uncomfortable..especially high blood pressure. My son recommended kratom and it’s like a miracle for me. I am so tired of being a slave to the pharmaceutical companies and being treated like a criminal when I ask for my script to be filled on time. I have no withdrawal symptoms ad my bp is 120/80. However, I’m scared to get off suboxone only because I never want to use opiates again and it’s been a marvelous insurance policy at low doses….but as i said, I’m tired of being beholden to pharmaceutical/insurance companies. Any thoughts? btw, i, too, started out as a pain patient who ended up on the nightmarish road to physical/emotional dependence. Thanks again. Nancy K>

        1. Hi Nancy I’m going thru the exact same thing 2mg for years I’m scared to withdrawal also. Please keep me updated on how the kratom is working for you. I started taking the tables today.

        2. What i did to get off Suboxone (11 year on subs) is the following- micro dosed down to 1/2 mg maybe smaller. You can do this at 2mg as well. You may call just need to take a bit more kratom at first. I purchased a kilo of red Hulu, or red Borneo, or even red meng da. There are online stores that will do quarter kilos splits (check out mewe app too) don’t spend more then $120 with shipping btw.. there are amazing vendors out there. U can get kilos for $85 (shipping included)
          Read about toss and wash or tea method. I do both. Tea while at work, toss and wash at home.
          When you get your order. Start taking your kratom. Get a digital scale, if you don’t have one use a teaspoon. key word being TEASPOON… Find your sweet spot. (The right dosage amount for you) start with two teaspoons (That’s about 3.4 grams) Bare in mind your coming off a synthetic OPIOD, don’t feel discouraged. Your probably gonna take more at first, but the reality is less is more with kratom. When getting off opioids, you may need to stack your doses… Maybe a dose every 2-4 hours- listen to your body. You’ll know when it’s time to redose.

          The idea here is to not think about the Suboxone anymore. The withdrawal from that garbage is absolutely horrible, but taking your kratom WILL help tremendously with the physical and psychological dependence issues to the Suboxone. Take less subs, by taking the kratom. Your gonna prob need kratom for a while, while you reprogram yourself– but when you’re ready, you can take less and less kratom, till you may only need it when you have a migraine or feel pain. This is what I did. I’ve been off subs for 4 months.

          As of today I make tea the night before – typically 8 grams, and sip when I needed it throughout the day.. many times I have tea left over for the next day. You can totally get off subs with kratom.

          1. Leafoffaith you just made my day! Same story line. I bought the Maedi da in capsule form jumbo. I’ve been taking 3 capsules about every 4 hours. Am I doing this right? Also should I stick with the green strand or move into another? So many people have so many answers. I like your idea and will follow you. Where do you purchase yours? Do they have a website.
            Thank you so much.

          2. This is a BEAUTIFUL freaking post. 38 year old mom of 3, taking Tramadol for the last 4 years for pain issues. I told myself I had had ENOUGH. It’s been 6 days off Tramadol and with the Kratom I feel like I am finally able to feel the sun on my back. I enjoy taking walks again…listening to music is meaningful again! 6 days in and while I am still feeling the effects of withdrawal, Kratom has saved my life and my family. Thank you for taking the time to write this lengthy post for everyone out there wanting their life back!!!!!!

        3. I was on suboxone for 1 year. Drs do not even TRY to ween patients off of it as They are suppose to. I got on suboxone to help with opiate withdrawals. Started out on 8 was too strong so I then went to 1/2…over a 1 year period I slowwwwly went from 1/2 to 1/4. I even could skip one day between doses. Ppl don’t realize just HOW strong suboxone is. After my last crumb, I took Advil liquigels for pain and discomfort and Tylenol pm for sleep. Immodium for diarrhea. That pretty much kept my w/d symptoms at bay for myself. The hot and cold sweats were there but only lasted for about 1 week. B complex and b12 was what have me energy once again. I PROMISE you, there IS hope and you CAN do it!!! 😉😉🙏

      6. Hi Lori!

        My story is similar to yours. Off opiates and Kratom has saved my life but recently I’m not feeling pain relief, mood or energy I was feeling and I’m wondering if it’s bc the quality of the Kratom I received this last order was not as good. I have like 25 different strains but I like the green dragon and I always seem to want to go back to it. Today I tried green kali and it has helped some but I had to take 2 hefty teaspoons of it to work for me. Can you recommend a good vendor? Thx in advance for your reply.

      7. Where do you order from Lori Z

      8. I don’t see Red Bali.. Is it a combo of 2? I have RA & lost my insurance so although I can pay (barely) for my RA meds, I can’t afford the Rhumatologist appts to prescribe the meds! So I’m trying this!

      9. Thank you so much for your comment it just keep giving me hope. Sadly I live in one of the 5 states that have made it illegal. I live in Arkansas. Please tell me you have some advice

        1. Then get off rhe kratom site and leave it to those of us willing to give positive advice and support and quit putting down ppl who are trying to better themselves and their lives

        2. Ashleigh Anne Weaver it may sound like a lot to go through but if you’re in pain it would be well worth it to drive to either of the bordering states of Louisiana or Missouri as kratom is legal in both those states.

      10. I’m with you ..but I’m still not sure what strain to use…the part I’m getting confused with euphoria is the talking and good mood with energy part… someone please help me figure this out…thanks alot

      11. Hey and wow! I really took away a feeling of hope after reading your post. I am red-hot-ripe for a double knew replacement and two new hips, but I’m too young and too nontrusting of doctors and their “medical” self-serving and always bias opinions about MY BODY! I know what I feel and don’t feel better than anyone else. I rode horses competitively for years. I broke both of my arms four times total and wretched my legs at their roots attempting to stay aboard my steeds as they took flight over 6 foot obstacles. I loved the thrill of cross country endurance racing, but it took a f#%&ing toll on my body. I take NOTHING that I can’t get over the counter. I don’t even have a doctor anymore. I fired everyone after a near death experience with prescription pills and vodka. I am on my own 100% and need direction. I have read this entire site but I’m still not sure what I should do. What I should get and where I go to get it. I picked you out of everybody to perhaps assist me with offering additional guidance. I need to feel positive, strong and motivated. Not high!
        Thank you,

        1. Tee, If I were you I would fire that doctor for giving you Vodka with your pills.
          Because everyone knows you don’t mix that krapp less you’re trying to kill yourself. You’re so negative

      12. So I am detoxing off of methadone and I have the indo white, will I also need the red and green ? Which ones? Also how much do I take of each like a capsule of each a day?

    3. Try the Red Vein Bali

      1. I’m new to the Kratom world. I’ve tried white Maeng Da which made me sleepy. I’m now going to try red Bali. I want pain relief, but also that happy feeling that comes when you do opiates, which I’ve been clean of for 34 months. Can someone give me some advice please. I’ve read alot of different articles and such and it seems each one says different things about the different strains. Help!😐

    4. Green Malay and green maeng da got me off opiates and make me want to go in public big time. Just be sure to use a different strain here abs there to not build tolerance. And drink LOTS of water. Flushes out the Pharm toxins and helps you feel a lot better

    5. Hey! Red Bali would be the strongest to come off of opiates. I use red Bali and maeng da. It gives a euphoric feel plus energy. Keep in mind it can take a week or two for your body to start reacting positively to the kratom, but till then, it’ll relieve your withdrawal issues. It took me about that long but now I get the euphoria everyday without taking opiates anymore! Also, a lot of smoke shops carry it and I don’t even have to order online. I use whole herbs brand. It’s best to switch off different strains every couple of weeks so u don’t get used to a particular strain. Hope this helps!

    6. Hi, as long as you find a good supplier all strains with work with withdrawals. You probably have a higher tolerance to most things so I would suggest a white strain and full affects at 2 teaspoons every 4 hours. Do not exceed that it doesn’t make it stronger and you will vomit. Kwik botanicals is less expensive and a good quality. You need to start an account to access the Kratom. I suggest the green Thai. Type into the search and it will pull up. As you progress try to to take the Kratom less times every other day. It will take all withdrawals away. Good luck at a new life!

    7. I myself am pretty happy with the s.nova and white lightning brands, and yes it’s just about great on moods, anxiety, and my opinion I’ve done the pain killers opiates, and I too had surgery on my knee three times in two weeks, and Im way better now.. my sensation is so much uplifting, not to say I didn’t have crutches, and Im running again. What a blessing….

    8. I am writing this in an effort to help anybody that this information might naturally benefit. I have take kratom daily for 12 months (periodically before that starting about 10 years ago) and over the past year I have found myself more in control of my internal and external world than I ever have before. I was a heroin/cocaine addict (in Detroit) for a good 5 years. Not any kind of lightweight either, hell I remember spending $15,000+ on the crud in less than a month at my worst. While only revealing what I need to for the sake of perspective, I’m sure I committed far more obsurd acts in my addiction, aside from wasting large amounts of money. Long story made short I ended up on Suboxone for about 800 fucking days. I include the expletives in regard to Suboxone because I don’t know who, or why someone decided Suboxone (buprenorphine) to be a reasonable LONG TERM therapy for anyone other than the most at risk people, i.e. top 5% of addicts. ESPECIALLY at doses >2mg. Either way, I bought my subs off the street after the first few months, because it removed the convenience factor associated with getting 60 x 8mg tabs or strips each month. I consistently took 4-8 mg a day for 2 years and anywhere from 1.5-3mg daily for about 6 month before quitting cold turkey, with the help of Kratom. Even with Kratom, I don’t think I slept for 3 months but it’s hard to say what caused that, given I had to try 15 different strains/sources of Kratom before I found one that made me say ah-ha! With that being said I give Kratom at least 50% of the credit in helping me regain balance in my life. Don’t strive towards anything other than what you know you need to do to ADVANCE as a human being. Kratom being a natural medicine, that has came to be by the slow process of time, should not be thought of as if it is of the same essence as any modern medicine. The purpose of synthetic or semi-synthetic chemicals is a complicatedly simple process of medicine where the natural chemical structures found in nature are concentrated or even elucidated upon creating new chemicals. Side effect profiles are VERY RELEVANT, and while modern medicine has provided us all with blessings beyond description, it has also at the same time brought forward some practical, serious ordeals that we are able to easily describe and observe in the light of contrast. What I’m trying to say is you might have to try 20 different strains of Kratom over a period of 6 months to find your balance. If that’s what it takes to undo the faulty wiring within the almost incomprehensibly complex system of circuitry within your mind and body, than so be it. It is worth finding out. Nothing worth discovery presents itself at first glance or inquiry. Or should I say everything good in this world hides itself from those who deserve it the most. Put in the work, find what resonates with the harmony and balance you need. If it doesn’t show up, keep looking, it will. (The first strain I ever objectively KNEW worked after I took it was Green Malaysian. Red Bali was after. Be careful with maeng da, there are many marketing horned varieties as maeng da that are worth little. You could reasonably try the same strain from 5 different vendors and experience different effect profiles from each. I take up to 15 grams some days and have yet to experience anything other than mild dizziness and nausea when taking too much. Too much being 25g+ in a 6-8 hour period. Less is often more with Kratom when it comes to dosage. My average dose after one year is 3grams of my preferred strains. Unfortunately I can’t link to what I buy. It is legal here in Michigan and sold in stores to the degree in which I never buy online. I can buy 60 grams of powder for $12.99 and I find it fresher on the shelves than in the mail regularly. I take convenience over saving a few bucks because I am gradually taking less Kratom as my life improves. If this helps anyone I will be glad. I might be able to answer specific questions for you if you need. Have a good day.

      1. Im in Michigan too but only found 25 grams for $25. I tried to search online where to buy kratom but only headshops come up and i heard those are the worst! What types of stores sell good kratom without me having to order online? Or how should I search for places to buy it in my city?

    9. hi……i’d like to know if anyone answered your question…..if they did …would u give me the answer also ?

  14. I use Red bicornuate for pain and it’s fantastic. begin slow because it will cause symptom. All Kratom is high in fiber thus ensure you’re drinking lots of fluids otherwise you can keep a copy. I had back surgery five discs consolidated and that i haven’t had to require opiates since happening Red Horn. i attempted Maeng prosecuting attorney and a number of other others however nothing has touched Red Horn.

    1. I’ve been taking Vicodin for 26 yrs and Fentanyl for 12 yrs I’m having trouble finding the correct strain and amount to take of Kratom , I have tried four different strains nothing seems to help I can’t function without terrible stomach pains and no motivation Haven’t slept a night through in a week!!! Any suggestions? I’m desperate

      1. I don’t know what strains you are taking or how you are preparing it. When I first started taking Kratom, it was to get off opioids (previously on 200 mg Morphine and 5-30mg Roxicodones/day or more) I was put on Methadone to get off the Morphine and Roxi. This was the first time I didn’t go thru that horrible withdrawal. I felt as if I had found a miracle, and still do. I went on a website that told me to use Red Bali and Yellow Indo. It also said to order something called Calm Support. It didn’t help thought. The Kratom is the only thing that has helped me and my husband to be able to get off pain pills. I have also had a spinal fusion. I have fibromyalgia and widespread chronic pain. Kratom has been a God send. The Yellow Indo used to make me sick so I quit taking it. Now I like the greens and whites for energy. They also provide enough pain relief to get me thru the day and night. They say the reds are sedative and green and white energising. I still have never felt this euphoria everybody talks about. But energy and pain relief is good enough for me to keep taking it. I use a small amount of orange juice in a bottle (old single serving orange juice bottle) about one or two inches in the bottom and then add about two teaspoons of Kratom. Right now I am using Super Green Malay and White Borneo (1 t each) When I first started I was using anywhere from 9 to 14 grams twice a day. Even though the stuff taste terrible, it is worth anything not to go thru withdrawal. You may be taking too much or a strain that doesn’t agree with you. Try starting out with a small amount and then as your tolerance builds, increase the amount. It sounds like you are going thru withdrawal. It will make you so sick you want to die. I don’t know if you have ever gone thru it or not, but it is the worst feeling you can experience. It can get to the point you don’t want to live anymore. Like I said before, Kratom has been a God send to me. I don’t know what I would do if the outlawed it. The legislators need to know this is the answer to the opioid addiction crisis this country is suffering from. They don’t want and answer because the doctors and pharmacies are making a fortune getting people hooked. I finally said–NO MORE. I was sick of being a slave to a pill. I wish you all the best. Just know, there are a lot of us out there who have been thru it. Good Luck

        1. Cindy,

          I am right there with you. Methadone is more evil than morphine and roxicodone ever thought about being. I got off a year ago with Levorphanol. It’s an old opiate that was re-approved for use. I’m in the medical field and I also worked in a treatment center. In school we did an autopsy of a murder victim who was found outside Ft Worth. This person had been dead approximately four years. They found methadone still the the patients BONES. Sometimes it can take over a YEAR to stop feeling the effects of methadone withdrawal. I also owe my life to Kratom. Be sure to call congress and tell them if they outlaw Kratom you will make sure the people responsible are voted out of office. I did. Millions are suffering from the DEA making it impossible to get pain relief. Hundreds have thrown in the towel and committed suicide. I’m prepared to break the law and illegally import Kratom if they try taking it away. The more people who call and insist that the DEA eff off on this the better chance we have. I pray all who read this that use this wonder plant band together and fight. I even asked the jerk in Congress if they were attempting population control by forcing the sick and the weak to just die. This IS the solution to the opioid crisis! Also, the National Center for Drug addiction has publicly come out to Congress and the DEA with a study showing that nobody has ever died taking this stuff. Let’s hope the drug companies ( especially the ones making Suboxone- that seems to be readily available) in bed with our lawmakers don’t ruin all of our chances at a healthy alternative to opiates. Best Wishes! Lori Zambrana McIntosh

        2. Cindy, I’m new at this, I’m on my second neck surgery and refuse to use pain management. They make you feel like a criminal! You sound very knowledgeable? Does Kretom have a shelf life?

      2. Hi Dayna, welcome to the world of chronic pain. Along with it comes, sleep disorders, and usually, though I hope you haven’t had to experience it, anxiety disorder. You don’t mention which strains you have tried. I can speak from personal experience due to a Frankenstien dr, and the freak show known as the DEA. I have a hard time getting scripts, but have had like you, Vicodin for a couple of decades off and on, codeine, and oxycodone. Vicodin is the best at pain moderation without serious side effects. The efficacy wears off after years, and you need to use another drug for a few months for the Vicodin to work as it once did. The lowest dose possible without going too low is best. In the past I was moved to oxycodone from Vicodin when it wasn’t working well enough. It is a very difficult drug to dose with. Has some serious motor skill impairment, but excellent pain relief. I just recently had fentanyl and found it useless. An almost immediate headache that did not relent, and only a few points worth of pain relief.

        I have had a number of kratoms. Reds, and what I believe is a white indonesian called super indo. It appears to be effective, but I have not even used a full oz of it yet.

        Red Kali or kalimatran is the best for pain relief, with the least stimulating effects. Though mild usually, the stimulation effect of most kratom combined with regular use, can leave you in a panic trying to get to sleep. Valerian and Passion flower are also beneficial.

        I have a disc that dried up and disappeared in my lumbar along with some nerve impingement. I was getting some fair pain relief without the “why cant I fall asleep” syndrome from kratom’s stimulant effect by using about three teaspoons of red kali, and another two to three teaspoons if breakthrough pain appeared. The dose for you may be different. The correct dose will generally give around five hours of pain relief.

        Valium is an extremely beneficial drug but must be taken carefully. Tolerance and addiction can happen easily. It can help you sleep and stay asleep, significantly reduces anxiety, and has some pain reducing properties.

      3. I’ve recently just started taking Kratom for depression so I can’t be sure about specific strains, however, I am convinced that the quality of the Kratom is quite important. So you need to find a good vendor. Ezkratom, Kratoria, katsbotanicals, and christophersorganicbotanicals are my top picks for you. Stick with the reds like Bali, Sumatra and Borneo. Grab all three if you can and take a different one each night to get a feel for which works best and also will help keep tolerance down. I want to say start with 3 to 5 grams. idk what your opiate tolerance is like so more might be needed. Hope this helps.

      4. Hey dayna im sure there are people with way more experience than me in this area but from my personal experiences withdrawling from herion and suboxone i found the white indo helped i would take about a table spoon everytime the pain was too much it definitely helped unfortunately there is no 100% silver bullet to cure all the opiate side effects but Kratom seemed to be the closest thing to relief there are other options like taking a ton of anti dihreal pills (NOT recommended) they help but will seriously dehydrate you and god only knows what horrible effects they have long term so if you can get a white or red vein ultra premium Indo that is where I would start. I wish you the best and I really hope you can get through it it sounds like you have the worst part behind you if its been a week GOOD LUCK and It is TOTALLY worth the misery for a new start

      5. It will be difficult to releave the opioiot stomach pains, cut back SLOWLY, part of what your experiancing is withdrawl. I moved to Wisconsin after being on pain managment, which the governer “declaired war on opiots” and took me from 8 oxy a day to nodda in 3 months. Scarry, but you can do this. Its hard, Kratom helps and once you start just do it, no matter the sucky part push through. Currently I am takeing Mangda Green, works well for pain.

      6. Hello!

        I know exactly what you are going through. I have been on all that and more. So far, I have tried the white Maeng Da, Red Bali and Green Malay. The Red Bali is GREAT and helped me off Dilaudid, MS Contin, Valium, and meds for ADD. I’m amazed at how much better I am. You don’t have to live in fear anymore. Don’t mix drugs with Kratom. Jump off at a taper, in other words step yourself down with what you have of your meds. When you get as low as you can ( I am in the medical field and know what I am talking about) use the Kratom and you won’t be sick at all. The fentanyl is dangerous to just jump off all of a sudden. I’d have your doc take you down to the lowest dose, then use the Vicodin and step down from there. When you are as low as possible that’s when to start Kratom. If it worked for me, it will work for anyone. Also be sure to call congress and tell them that you will be sure to have anyone responsible for making Kratom illegal voted the hell out. Take care, and know that YOU CAN DO IT!!! Sincerely and with hugs and prayers, Lori Zambrana McIntosh

        1. My husband is currently taking between 6(that’s only when he’s low or the last of them) and 12 10mg percs a day. He make $4000 a month we have no mortgage no car payments and no kids at home and are always broke! I need to cut him down. I know he won’t just quit, he is terrified of the withdrawal. So if his usual is to take 20mg of Percocet (2 10mg) at a time and he takes that 4-6 times a day should he start by taking one 10mg with some Kratom or take his regular 20mg dose then a couple hours later take Kratom?

          1. Ms kelly,
            Hello, I am in a similar situation. In not sure how your hubs is, but first thing in the morning I seem to require an ungodly amount,of meds to get going. Seem to be ok,once I get up and at work. With that being said. I’m new to kr atom btw, I’ll take four or five “bananas” in the morning. Two when I first get up and three more a couple hours later. After that I’ll take a mix of kr atom. I’ll be fine the whole day and sleep ok.

  15. Thanks for posting this informative and great blog and i really appreciate your work, Finally i know the strains effects and its importance.It helps me to understand about it. Appreciate Your Effort. Incredible points. Solid arguments. Keep up the amazing work.

  16. Well Mary Elizabeth aren’t you lucky, now you should work on being so judgmental and self righteous. Your situation is not everyone else’s situation. You sound rude, arrogant and ignorant in my opinion for someone who claims to so know so much about subject. Pray and meditate for more compassion. Focus on having gratitude you didn’t experience addiction or where able to get past it instead of spouting out your opinions as if they where facts regarding other people’s experience with pain, pain medication and addiction. Yes other people have opinions as well.

    Also the subjects kratom and how it helps different people for different reasons not your opinion on if addiction is real and those who being weak in your opinion. Think you got off track here.

    1. You don’t like this, start your own blog.

  17. I just got switched to a pain medication that does not work by my pain management. They gave me a line of carp about regs, blah, blah, blah.

    I had some Maeng Da Red vein I had gotten last year. So I made up some capsules of about .40 grams each. I took 2, my pain level within an hour was a 6, 2 more got me to a functional 4 pain level. I did 2 more before bed and slept all night. I’m somewhere at the bottom of the dosage scale at about .5 tsp. But it works and I will be buying more soon.

    1. Was the red vein the closest feeling to oxycodone? I have herniated discs in my back and drs refuse to write anymore for relief. I tried some today but got no relief, it was red borneo. Wasn’t impressed at all.

      1. Super Red Maeng Da is awesome for back pain, also the super green Maeng Da

      2. I bought a sample pack and have used the Red Vein Maeng Da and it works well on my herniated disc pain. It tends to wire me. I have yet to try the Green Vein Malay and the White Vein Bali I got. I am trying to figure out if one of them is more sedating cause I need help sleeping.

        1. You may be an opposite because red is the more sedating, white is most energizing and green is in the middle. With kratom, less is more, meaning less is stimulating and more is sedating (as a rule of thumb). All of the MD strains have the highest alkaloid and flavonoid contents out of all strains; they sometimes refer MD as the pimp of kratoms lol.
          Try taking higher dose of your red and if it still keeps you wired then youre probably an opposite, where the whites will be your sedating strains and reds stimulating.

      3. I have found that red Bali is the best for my pain management and its effects are stimulating while energetic. I have to take 4-5 grams to be at a pain free or close to it level and be able to carry on with my day without feeling too sleepy which is very unlike any opiate I have ever been prescribed. I was taking pain meds for over 3 years and decided to go the natural way to find remedies to help me cope with my day to day life as a mom and the recovery was terribly hard. Then I found kratom and I can live life again and be the mom I want to be for my kids. I have tried red mengda, red hulu, gold bali and trainwreck and non of those top 4 grams of red Bali. Wish you all the best of luck!

    2. I take this plant on a daily basis. It helps with pain & my sometimes depression. I am so thankful that I found this product.

  18. I have just recently learned of Kratom, & since I have looked a lot of information up. I was wondering if anyone knows for sure if “Oregon Kratom” is a good, reputable source for online kratom ordering. Thank You Very Much!!!!

    1. They are great!

    2. Hi!
      Sooo.. Oregon Kratom is slightly less potent than some of the other great vendors but the overall feel and effect of their strains is unparalleled. If you’re relatively new to kratom with a [semi]low tollerance please start there!! It’s not always about being crazy potent… Once I got over the fact that I had to take a gram or two more er dose I obliterated my 200 g’s of samples in slightly over a week.. And LOOOOVED 6 of the 7 strains. For me, even with the premium vendors I am about 50/50 on strains that work for me. Hope this helped a bit!

  19. There are different benefits of Kratom such as It is Anti-Depressant, Anti-leukemic, Anti-malarial, Anti-inflammatory etc. I have been using it for past two years and have not experienced any severe side effects, just mild headaches.

  20. Would u say it would be unsafe to take kratom along with an occasional hydrocodone 7.5 ml?

    1. They woulf be pretty much offset each other.

      1. That’s not true I’ve taken a small amount of methadone with Kratom and absolutely no offset
        You have to wean you can’t just go from taking a large amount of opiates and then just rely on kratom

        1. Oh yes you can

          1. Yes you. Im living proof of that

          2. I also am proof that you absolutely CAN just quit and use kratom with zero withdrawal symptoms.. I had been opiate dependent for about 13 years and on suboxone for 7 of those years. I had tried to quit many times but failed before finding the kratom plant!!! I was taking 8 mg a day of suboxone and was able to finally succeed in my quest to stop taking it… KRATOM saved my life and allowed me to find my soul and have a relationship with my father once again.

        2. You’re wrong..I was on Norcos for close to 5 years at a 150 mgs a day..I had a problem I became addicted to them..I quit Norcos cold turkey by starting the worked for me…I had very mild withdrawals at the beginning..but after 2-3 days I was fine..I’ve been clean now for 5 months.

          1. What kind of Kratom did you use? Trying to get an idea of what might be best for my situation. Unfortunately I have chronic pain and I hate taking medicine but it’s caught up with me. Any advice would be helpful! Congratulations btw, I’m sure you feel amazing it’s a big accomplishment!

        3. I was on morphine and hydro’s.. Couldn’t fill my script in another state. My son had some Kratom. NO withdrawals at all!
          So… Yes you can cold turkey and enjoy your vacation!
          This comes from a person who’s been addicted for years… Thanks to Kratom.. Opiate free

        4. I was on morphine and hydro’s.. Couldn’t fill my script in another state. My son had some Kratom. NO withdrawals at all!
          So… Yes you can cold turkey and enjoy your vacation!
          This comes from a person who’s been addicted for years… Thanks to Kratom.. Opiate free

        5. Yes, this was the comment I was looking for. Trying to supplement methadone w kratom, like I wish I could do both, while slowly getting off the M.

          1. It’s been 3 weeks since my last methadone dose. I’ve had great luck with white Bali; that said I had tapered from 90 mg to 24 mg before jumping off. Kratom made it the easiest methadone detox I’ve ever experienced- & I’ve done it about 5 times bc I’m hard headed. You cam do it!

          2. You can do both at the same time but its not necessary with kratom you CAN quit cold Turkey with no withdrawal

        6. Yes you can for sure !!! It is a life saver

        7. Yes you can. I went from 5 percocet today cold Turkey to Kratom.
          So Always remember it’s your opinion and it does not Work the same way for everybody

    2. Why? Your brain believes them to be the same exact thing. Stop the addictive pain meds immediately and rely simply on Red Bali

    3. Stupid question because your brain believes them to act exactly the same. Oxy is chemicals while Red Bali are leaves from a tree.

      1. You have no idea what you are talking about. Kratom targets the exact same opioid receptors in the brain as narcotic pain meds. Oxy is NOT chemicals man. Opiates are processed from a plant too man. Ever heard of the poppy plant dude? The opium poppy plant is the plant that ALL narcotic pain meds are made from. Kratom is a different plant but provides the same effects because it acts on the same receptors in the brain so technically the brain does not know the difference. When I take 7 grams of Kratom it makes me feel exactly the same as if I had taken 20 milligrams of Percocet.

        1. What is the best way to take the powder? I am new and just had the terrible experience of just taking a spoonfull…YUK!! And almost choked to death…but the effect is awesome..I am a nurse and do not want Opiates at all!!

          1. Debbie, you might try the toss n wash method. Take a teaspoon full into your mouth (just let it sit on the tongue), then take a swig of coffee (not too hot, but still quite warm), swish it all around in your mouth like mouthwash until all of the kratom is completely wet(it will not dissolve but won’t clump as bad with something semi-hot as opposed to cold), then swallow. You can repeat this if necessary, then swish just the liquid around in your mouth to get all of the remnants. Another method is to take an empty prescription bottle (with lid), put teaspoon of kratom in the cup then some semi-hot coffee, put lid on, shake up well, then take the shot. Kratom still won’t dissolve but won’t clump as bad as it would with cold liquid. I’ve never tried the second method, but I’ve spoken with many who have. Also, take a drink of water prior to either method so your throats won’t be so dry. It helps to hold your breath and focus on something like a looking at a magazine or reading an article. As someone who gags easily at different tastes and textures, especially kratom lol, I promise the more you do either method, the easier it gets. You might also join a kratom group on Facebook (NACU kratom, New and Current Users Kratom is a large one) and ask for other suggestions.

          2. I keep a little bottle of juice to shake it in, like you get at convenience store. Orange juice seems to work best.

          3. You can mix it in applesauce or there are recipes for like smoothies.
            Reddit has a lot of good info.

          4. Go to a health food store and buy the 00 size empty capsules and put the kratom in a bowl to make it easy to manually fill. You can also buy the small machines that the capsules fit in to easily fill. I take 8 of them for my dose a morning. My wife takes 6 to start her day.

          5. I mix it with my hot coffee it completely dissolves and then i add cpl spoonfuls of sugar makes the taste way better then add some cold water and chug it works great

          6. What I do is put desired amount and type in a very small jar with small amount of water and shake it up. Plus it doesn’t get on my teeth as bad:)

          7. My method is super easy: get your dose ready; I use a 1/2 teaspoon measure because any more than that is harder to swallow, and the very rounded shape means it doesn’t spill out like a standard spoon would.
            So, you get your dose ready, take a little sip of whatever liquid you prefer, tip your head back and dump the whole teaspoon in onto the liquid you are holding in your mouth, and then take a nice swig of liquid to wash it all down like you would a pill.
            It took me a few tries to get this right, but now it’s just instinct practically. The powder never touches your tongue or the roof of your mouth or anything, all you taste is the liquid you swallowed. 🙂 I think it works because the little clump of powder floats on top of the first sip of liquid, so it gets washed away effortlessly.

          8. Since I like sour things I’ve found a teaspoon of kratom in a plastic cup with about a tablespoon of frozen lemonade, mix with a fork and maybe another tablespoon or so of water after the kratom and lemonade are mixed good and doesn’t taste bad at all! Been doing it that way for a couple of years!

        2. Dr. Feelgood,
          you are incorrect. Oxycodone, Oxycontin, Hydrocodone, Dilaudid, etc… are all synthetic versions of opium, either stronger or weaker. Synthetic meaning, they are not natural but created in a lab. Poppy plants are not used in the making of these painkillers.

          1. Partially correct, andy. The painkillers you mentioned are semi-synthetic but they also include an ingredient that comes from the poppy plant & is an opiod. So they contain opiates as the basis for the synthetic manipulation that gives the opiate a stronger effect while using less of the opiate componant. So still an opiate. You’ll commonly see the words semi-synthetic in marketing materials.

          2. Sorry, but that is not true. Semi-synthetic indicates that they are created by using specific ingredients derived from the poppy plant and then chemically altered, usually quite simply to achieve a new drug. Poppies contain more than just morphine to include thebaine, and other psychoactive substances. Fentanyl and its analogue are totally man made and infinitely more dangerous.

        3. Opiates have been made chemically for years… Dude. Morphine and heroin… Laudinam too were made from poppy’s. The white opium poppy is illegal in the u. S. And all opiate pain meds are a chemical copy… Dude

        4. What kratom are you using?

        5. Dr feel good- what type do you use? And what brand or site? Would love your input on best strains and product! Thanks!!!

  21. I get so much relief from Kratom. several strains..Now I find out the FEDS are looking to ban it completely! What BS, sure it helps people,keeps it’s users out of the doctor must be stopped. Yes, I’m more than a little upset. It’s been approved because of users writing about how great it is, but I’ve heard now that the FEDS are on it, it will be taken away, within a year. Has anyone else heard that? I’m in Cincinnati, OH and that’s what I hear at the smoke shop I go to, and it sucks.

    1. Angela, I’m with you on that. I just discovered kratom in feb of this year. It has helped my Fibromyalgia symptoms better than any medication doctors have given me over the past 7 years. If the FDA really cared about our safety and wellbeing, they would run tests to prove or disprove the claims. Not simply say the claims are false and work to ban it. It just doesn’t fit their agenda. That’s sad.

      1. Actually the Feds issued a letter of intent back in 2016 to make Kratom a schedule 1 substance but due to an overwhelming response from the public they withdrew the letter of intent last year. They are now in the process of laboratory testing Kratom to determine if it is dangerous or not. As far as I know it’s going to take a couple of years for them to draw their conclusions. If they were fixated on banning it they would have done so by now so don’t worry about it right now and go burn a few grams 🙂 Cheers!!

    2. Yes. Illegal now in 4 States

  22. My husband has back pain and has been on oxycodone for a while and would like to get off of it. What strain would be good for pain relief?

    1. Red strains will be what you are looking for

      1. Only if your also looking for a more sedative feel. Green or white maeng de is the best for a switch from opiates and pain.

        1. In your opinion maybe but reds are the ones that are usually for pain. Always end with your opinion only otherwise it’s like you’re giving medical advice.

    2. Red Sumatra 650 mg from Garner’s. Works wonders for me, but I need to take like 2-3 of them. Everyone is different though.

    3. Hi Donna 🙂 For me anyway Green Maeng Da feels almost exactly like I’ve taken Percocet. When I first started taking Kratom a couple of months ago 5 grams felt like 20mg of Percocet. Now it takes about 7 grams but I have been taking it almost every day since I started. Find a local smoke shop and try purchasing a small amount to try. The local shop near me charges $20 for a 1oz bag of capsules that are 1\2 gram each. 10 caps would be 5 grams and that would likely be a good first dose to try. Dosage amount varies from person to person so you’ll have to experiment to find his sweet spot dose.

      1. Opiates have been made chemically for years… Dude. Morphine and heroin… Laudinam too were made from poppy’s. The white opium poppy is illegal in the u. S. And all opiate pain meds are a chemical copy… Dude

    4. Red Bali is what I use and I take 8g per dose I mix in the bottom of a coffee cup with a little HOT water and make a paste so it doesn’t sit on the juice..then pour in about 3 oz of grapefruit juice I read mixing with grapefruit juice is the best catalyst for pain relief ..I was on norcos for years and quit taking and using Kratom with better results than the norco also absolutely no withdrawal from the opiates ..I order the powder from top extracts

    5. Buy your Kratom online.. Happy Hippo is great.. But from smoke shops it’s often old and much weaker than good online sources.

    6. Andy, you took the words out of my mouth. That is why say I am allergic to Tylenol 3 but can take Vicodin. One is synthetic and the other is derived from the poppy. Years ago before the synthetics all opiates were derived from Opium/Poppies but nowadays most are cooked up in a lab.

  23. Which strain is better for weight loss and pain?

  24. Hoping someone can guide me a little bit. Quick scope of my general problems: fatigue, lack of motivation, neck and back pain, short attention span, small bouts of depression, insomnia, low appetite, low sex drive.

    I’m afraid to try kratom for a couple reasons. One being what I’ve heard about a “hangover” effect after using. I don’t want to feel like shit on days I don’t take it. Additionally, I don’t want to NEED to take it every day just to avoid that, as I build a tolerance to things quickly, and have an addictive personality. Also as I mentioned, my appetite is rather low, and I’m worried taking an energetic kratom strain will make me not eat at all.

    However, I need some help, some relief. I’ve done a lot over the past 8 years to help my symptoms and I’ve made a lot of progress, but there are just some things that are tricky. It also doesn’t help that my current insurance doesn’t cover mental health costs if I so chose to return to therapy or medication. Nor does it cover physical therapy which was going to be my plan to help my neck and back.

    I guess what I’m asking is, how risky is it to take kratom and what strain would be best for my issues?

    1. Energetic really is not energenetic. It’s just a little picker upper. Remember to start small doses.

      1. what site is good to order from

    2. Green Maeng DA is the strain I like best. I find it the most similar feeling to traditional pain meds. It helps with my back pain tremendously. I have to take it on an empty stomach for best results but once it kicks in I have no problem with appetite an hour or so later. At first, eating something did make me a little nauseous but I quickly got used to it but now I can scarf a pizza once it kicks in. Pepto tablets helped immensely in the beginning if I took a little to much and started feeling a little queezy. As far as addiction goes I am a recovering addict and I have had no problems with craving it when I don’t need it whatsoever. I was actually surprised at this because it does feel great when I take it but for some reason I just don’t feel compelled to take it more than I need to. It also seems to have antidepressant properties as well. I have found that my overall mood has elevated even when I am not taking it that day. Kratom really has changed my life for the better. I can’t say enough good things about it..

  25. I am a recovering ov heroine addict what strain what kratam specialist recommend I use to simulate the effects of opiates. I say that bc I know myself and if it doesn’t feel like opiates I will relapse And I really don’t want to. Do I guess what strain feels the most like opiates until I can get my life under control.

    1. Try red Bali my freind I was on Suboxone along with many other things and all I use now is kratom red Bali really helpd alot

      1. Oh my goodness!! I’m trying to get OFF of the evil suboxone!! This is GREAT to hear!! So Red Bali. What about Ultra Enhanced Indo and Red Vein Thai??

      1. Not necessarily. I have tried the reds and the greens and so far the Green Maeng DA is my favourite and feels the most like Percocet IMO. Many places will sell a sampler kit for you to try different kinds. I have talked to many people who tried different strains and opinions definitely vary. Red strains will be more sedating if you like the nods but for the overall euphoric effect that is most similar to heroin or Suboxone I saw grab some Green Maeng DA and scarf about 5-7 grams…

    2. Get either red vein or red horn.
      Those are what work for me.
      Best wishes on recovery!!

    3. Ashleigh Anne Weaver it may sound like a lot to go through but if you’re in pain it would be well worth it to drive to either of the bordering states of Louisiana or Missouri as kratom is legal in both those states.

  26. What’s the best type Kratomis best for coming of methadone

      1. witch site is best to order from

  27. Hi there, thank you for the great information. I did
    have a question though I think you might be able to help me with.

    I was wondering, What are less known alternative treatments for breast cancer (aside from the standard treatment procedures)?
    If you could provide a little insight I would greatly appreciate it!

  28. hi. settling in for subutex withdrawals after long 1 and a half year opiate addiction from doing everything i could get my hands on just to keep from getting sick.(opiate addiction started from lower back injury from work and started using to be able to function at my job better(requires heavy percise lifting everyday)) been struggling to sober up now for 6 months and becomming desperate. i refuse to look for more opiates im done. have had nothing for 36 hours now and had a long night last night not being able to sleep and kicking hard even after taking 8-500mg capsules of red vein maeng da blend. could not sleep all night but was not in pain like normal. any suggestions? was jittery all night and felt enormous amounts of energy in chest while trying to sleep. should i try a different strand? i have always had anxiety and trouble sleeping and while withdrawing i have always too much energy and am unable to sleep.any strains/dosages that are able to combat the inability to fall asleep/calm down/stop the hot flashes and heavy kicking when ready to go to bed?

    1. I’m so sorry to hear this!! I’m about to be in the boat right next to you. I’m preparing for Suboxone detox. I’m almost positive I’ll get Red Bali…my research shows that is THE BEST for our situations. However, I am also curious about Red Vein Thai and Ultra Enhanced Indo.

      Waiting for answers with you my friend.

      Oh wait, lol, just saw date you posted! What did you try?

      1. Partially correct, andy. The painkillers you mentioned are semi-synthetic but they also include an ingredient that comes from the poppy plant & is an opiod. So they contain opiates as the basis for the synthetic manipulation that gives the opiate a stronger effect while using less of the opiate componant. So still an opiate. You’ll commonly see the words semi-synthetic in marketing materials.

  29. Ive been taking pain meds for about 10 yrs now,and like most others….became slowly addicted.Trying to get off,been weaning down slowly for many months now.i recently purchased Red vein maeng da….White vein bali….Red vein bali……then saw something about this blend called “Bright Eyes blend”……what is my best option…..OR….mixture of these???? And….what dosage….??

    1. Personally i would go for a red bali. Its all up to prefrance though, i would try each typle for one day and track your pain level. Some strains work better for certain poeple than others.

    2. I would go with the red vein Bali. It’s the most opiate like and is extremely effective for pain relief. 2 grams is the recommended starting dose. I had to start with 3 for it to work. It works very well for me but everyone body chemistry is different.

    3. I’m in the same boat, been on the pain meds for 20 years!…I have tried the green maeng da strain and the energy levels are awesome, also it helps cut the pain way down…and that is without having any pain meds for the days I take the Kratom…I’m planning to try some of the other strains based on the info I have gotten from this site…good luck to you, hope it makes a difference in your life too!

    4. All the strains will help you and according to the above info I would say Bali would be best for that. I personally used Red Vein to ease myself off of opiates to GREAT effect. I swear the world should wake up and use this stuff to treat addiction. My suffering was reduced by 10x. Best of luck buddy. zunich

    5. I just stopped 2mg of suboxone two weeks ago. The wd was horrible but as soon as i started taking red maeng da everything changed. It helped me sleep. Stopped my restless leg. And gave me energy for the day. I highly recomend! Good Luck Ray! You can do this! Remember, you owe it to yourself!

    6. I can’t answer your question exactly because I had to go somewhere to detox for a few days but now I’m getting through my pain with maeng da powder that I make into capsules and keep with me. I only take one or two a day at separate times when needed. It’s not OxyContin but it gets me by and I don’t have to depend on narcotics. I just didn’t have the willpower to come off completely at home and didn’t want my family to see me that sick. However I was taking a couple hundred 30 mg instant release a month. One every 3 hours so my withdrawals were out of this world. I wanted to die but I didn’t wean down at all. Good luck.

    7. I recommend joining a few Facebook groups If you haven’t already. Different strains have different effects on everyone but for opiate wds and pain management, reds are the better choice especially red Bali since it does have a bit of a calming effect and we know how our minds are during wds… *going crazy” I’d stick to reds until you’re through the wd stage and jump to green and red blends. Yellow Maeng da is also good for relaxing with a slight energizing feeling if you take it in small doses. Best of luck. Join kratom for dummies on Facebook. New hope botanicals have the best kratom I’ve ever tried and I’ve used around 15 different vendors. I only have to take half of my dose from them bc it is so strong. Hoping you’re doing well!

    8. I’ve been taking kratom for 4 or more years now and I, like you was taking pain meds for back and joint pain. I have done a mix of just about all types at some time or another but I have found Red Maeng Da the best for pain. And now I don’t go to Dr. anymore to get my script re-upped.

    9. I live in Boston, I have that mass ave. monkey on my back,i just read the entire replys here, after i saw kratom in a Dot Ave headshop,in Andrew Square, but my question is what is and where to go is the best for a detox all easy ,can any one tell me the address and what type to get, i dont want to get turned off if i do it wrong

    10. … it is so important to continue to NEVER give up seeking more biologically gentle relief or cure to what ails us, that I’d like to share that my experience of an effective adjunct to my ongoing samplings for determining the best strains and dosing with Kratom for my relief from intense, persistent or fleeting ailments or conditions, has been supplementation with good- quality high-dose, liposomal vitamin-C. With alternating between the Kratom and the liposomal ‘-C, I enjoy the therapeutic benefits provided by both and I also get a break, in my case, from concern with the dreaded “buzz” effect.

  30. I have a few questions on this stuff. I am totally new to it…can you take anti-depressants while on it such as Cymbalta and Wellbutrin? Also, looking for advise on what to get. I have serious degenerative disk disease in upper back and neck. Thus far having 2 neck fusions and could get more but find it just is a downhill spiral…get one fixed and then it puts pressure on the others and then those need fussed. I also, have Chronic Fatigue syndrome and Fibromyalgia I was diagnosed with even prior to that car accident over 25yrs ago. So to make a long story short I deal with almost daily migraines along with all over body pain which in turn makes it hard to sleep which in turn makes my Fatigue Syndrome even worse. Any suggestions on strands etc. would be great. I was thinking something for morning to help me through the exhaustion and pain during the day and something at night to help with pain and sleep. Also, does anyone know of a supplier that has sample packs for you to try for a day or 2 to make sure it is a good fit before buying for several days. Thank you!

    1. Hello V,
      I’m new too I’ve tried 3 vendors thus far but over 20 strains. Here is my recommendation for you. Try Happy Hippo Herbals ( sample pack. It contains a fast strain, medium strain, and a slow strain. Also they always send a sample. You can request which strain you would like as a sample just email them. Here is my personal recommendation for you: pain- red dragon Bali. Insomnia-yellow Sumantra. Energy-white indonesian. Hope I have been helpful. Thanks. -B

      1. Thank you for your input on the INSOMNIA one. I needed that information for myself, the pain relive one for my significant other. Have a blessed Season. 👏

    2. Oh yeah as far as medication goes… I take abilify ,Prozac , a Statin for high cholesterol, and Xanax. You should be fine with the medications you are taking. I hear that antidepressants somewhat blocks the effects of Kratom. That’s the only problem. I personally am weaning myself off abilify and then Prozac next because I find Kratom to be much more beneficial than the meds ( this is why they are trying to ban it and demonize it because as soon as everyone finds out about this wonderful plant bye bye big pharm… cya psychiatrists) but anyways you have to find the right dose of Kratom for you as well as the right strain. Personally I find the yellow strains to be the most calming/anxiety releiving. I find whites to be best for energy and focus. Reds best for eurphoria and pain. And greens are the most balanced… and actually my least favorite. It took me about 3 weeeks to find my dose and strain. The most common side effects are constipation and nausea. You can counter the constipation by taking Metamucil or milk if magnesium at night and counter the nausea by taking raw ginger or ginger capsules the same time you take your Kratom dose. Good luck to you!

      1. I wouldn’t put it that way, one of the reasons the FDA has Kratom in it’s crosshairs is because many dietary supplement vendors are claiming that kratom cures many illnesses, conditions, diseases and disorders with zero evidence to make those claims and with only a few stories of someone who claims it worked for them.
        Not everyone is like me, i have logged my experience with kratom from dosage, effects, time stamps, every chemical i ingest goes into the log including all medications and containing alkaloids/buffers/active ingredients within.

        I have Graves Disease, anxiety, panic attacks, neurological pain. and Nothing has worked, I’m allergic to most SSRI’s, MAOI’s, mood stablizers and so on. I’m currently addicted to Suboxone and am trying to step off of it slowly until i can take my Kratom Red Vein Bali to curb the WD’s.

        Kratom happens to work for me, but i can not guarantee it will work for all others with similar problems. i hear and believe it works for opioid addiction and am about to give it a try. The point i’m trying to make here is, me saying it works for anxiety is not evidence it works for anxiety in case many do not realize this which seems to be the case.
        I could have taken several medications, Chemicals inside of vitamins, food and other factors that could be contributing to my success. unless the person lists a full markup of every medication, chemical ingested, dosage, strain, time stamps, dose of medication addicted to. you have no proof and should not boast it as such.

        I’t seems for most people Kratom may work for several conditions to treat them effectively depending on severity of illness, duration of illness, medications you currently take, dosage of Kratom and strain of kratom taken. everyone is different.

      2. Well I agree it is a wonderful plant, but beware everyday use like you would with all antidepressants would cause extreme physical addiction over time. Don’t use daily or physical withdrawals will be tough.

        1. I have been using Kratom for about 3 years. 3 to 4 times a day. There have been many times that I have not used it and had no withdrawal symptoms. From forgetting to pack it when I went on a weekend road trip, to getting up on the weekend and just plain forgetting to take it.

      3. I respectfully must disagree with this and I am very much a kratom fan. I am also in total agreement the proposal of Kratom Bans relate to FDA. And money. However I am also an advocate, in psychiatric treatment have a Masters in Neuroscience, I am starting law school in the fall at the experienced age of 51 with the sole purpose of working against the pervasive societal bias for those with psychiatric illness. The science has rocketed past society in only 10 to 15 years. People with multiple sclerosis (another illness of the brain) do not stop treatment for illness in order to take Kratom, nor to people with strokes, seizures, or brain damage, These are all brain illnesses without the stigma of psychiatric illness. What they do is use it to help them function with related or break through symptoms. Those with psychiatric illness need to stop feeding into their own illness. Al illness which puts you on zyprexa is likely science based and someone will eventually have symptoms which kratom can’t address. I have scerlederma sclerosis and bipolar illness. I take kratom for pain, focus, energy, relaxation, slight mood lift, it won’t treat real diseases,,,,these are real diseases, I hope I’m still around when people with psychiatric illness start advocating for their rights in the courageous way Parkinson’s disease patients and Huntington disease patients did, they were hero’s. Stand up against bias

      4. Also for nausea you take your right thumb and place it 3 inches from the wrist between the tendons until the nausea subsides. Usually doesn’t take long, a minute or two. Acupressure technique. Another good one, to keep from gagging, place your right thumb in the center of your left hand and press! Immediate relief!

      5. just read your comment and realize this is months later, but I wanted to share my educated opinion. being that you understand big pharma is a racket and will go to any lengths to suppress holistic approaches/remedies, (pls dont take my word for it, read it for yourself), but statins constitutes one of the biggest scams out there!! and theyre dangerous….the whole high cholesterol scare is a huge misnomer, and many cardiologists are discovering the true cause of heart disease…if you do decide to stay on the drug, you might want to supplement with OoQ 10 as statins diminish its production…maybe you knew all this prior to my post, but Im just reaching out to a fellowman in hopes you can find optimal well being namaste

    3. Any of the Red Vein are great for pain. White and green work good as well. I used to be on pain meds for pain also and was completely addicted to them. They ruined my life and actually made my pain worse. I had to go thru the awful withdrawal of stopping them and forced myself to stay away from drugs. I did this before knowing about Kratom. It took time to overcome but I did it. And I started working out, eating better and kept myself as busy as I was able. The very best workout is swimming in the pool. There is no gravity in water so it is very easy on your body, even treading water for 20 minutes is enough to help. Then I stopped drinking so many sodas and researched foods that actually make your pain worse and I stopped eating those foods. The way you eat is of up most importance especially when you have problems with pain. I have Rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, and back problems. I used to lay on the floor crying in pain from my back and my toes hurt so bad I could barely walk. Once I got off the pain meds, started eating good foods for my body and swimming in the pool at a gym, the pain started going away. It took time but it has been over 2 years now and i feel so amazing compared to how I was. Pain meds only make the pain worse, it doesn’t help and coming off of them is pure hell! Since I found Kratom it really helps to manage pain when I have pain. It also puts me in a great mood and I have not noticed any horrible side effects. I have to say it is definitely the best go to instead of the horrible pharmaceutical junk the docs give you. Also I found that pork and shrimp were the very worst of all foods for my RA as every time I are them I would swell up and be in so much pain. Getting those two foods out of my diet really made a difference. Since then I have found many more foods that are horrible for you in general as well as if you have pain issues. Research as much as you can and make up your mind completely that you are sick of the negatives in your life and you can overcome taking junk medicine and overcome the pain you have. Most of all of our pains do truly come from the food we eat and lack of moving our bodies enough. Take the time to research and don’t push yourself to hard all at once. It is going to take time but I tell you truly it is worth it. I live mostly pain free now compared to laying on a floor crying and feeling hopeless.

      1. This is my life right now! I have been bedridden for a year my toes hurt so bad I am going to look up the food as well!

    4. When I started on kratom I was on cymbalta…been on antidepressants for twenty years…since being on kratom I’ve been about to stop antidepressants completely with no withdrawal side effects…

    5. I too have had multple spinal fusions and i have tried every strain available in my area. Ive found what works best for me are green strains green malay, green thai, and my favorite green vietnam. Red strains are too relaxing and make me very tired. White and yellow strains are to much energy and make me jittery. But green strains seems to be set perfectly center between them all. I usually take 3-5 grams at a time. For the past 2 years this has been my main source of pain relief and the upside compared to prescription painkillers is so high that as long as its available this will be my only choice for relief. I hope this helps you. Feel free to message back with any questions

      1. Hydrocodone is too weak for me. Only office oxycodone 10 mg or helped. I tried red borneo and got no relief. 2 herniated discs in my back. Your advice is green strain for similar oxy effects?? Thanks

        1. My two cents worth: Green Maeng DA. I’ve tried several others and I swear to the good Lord above that 7 grams makes me feel like I had a 5mg shot of morphine!! I was skeptical when my best friend told me about it but when I finally tried it I was positive I was going to fail a drug test if my Job asked me to take one..

    6. YES! i take welbutrin and prozac and can attest that i have taken both small doses 2-3 grams daily over time, as well as large doses 4-9 grams for single use pain relief. I have not seen any negitive side effects. I have taken green white and red meang da, as well as red borneo. keep in mind that although this is not an actual opioid it activates opioid receptors. you have a slightly higher risk for seizures while taking such a drug however it isnt any riskier than say having a margarita or taking real opiates like hydracodone for pain. Anyone taking a drug that puts them at a higher risk for seizures or seritonin syndrome should take it slow at first with kratom, i took 3 grams of green maeng da my first try, then gram by gram day by day found my limits and ideal dosages. The only real serious incidents recorded so far have been due to idiots taking Huge doses, people mixing it with other recreational drugs/alcohol or people who have an allergy to it.

      I will highly recommend that you buy from a reputable source (not some gas station) and make sure that it is both sourced indigenously (from real local farmers) and is 100 percent pure labeled. this will ensure that it is potent, safer, and “fair trade” meaning that it is made and sold by the local peoples who are experienced for what they deem a fair amount or money. all these things are important for keeping kratom both available and legal.

      1. can you give me some reliable sources please? All this research I’ve been doing can be confusing and overwhelming. I’m looking for something for chronic neck pain which contributes greatly to my depression and migraines which are debillatating. Yet I still go in for my 12 hours night shifts as a nurse in this pain. Info greatly appreciated. TIA!

    7. Wellbutrin is an inhibitor. You can’t take as much with it…unless you want that potent affect. It basically makes it last longer and stronger.

  31. I have chronic pain due to fibromyalgia. I am so tired of going from dr to dr. I have had MRI’s, X-rays, multiple spine and neck injections. Had MD’s tell me it’s all in my head. I belong to a fibromyalgia forum that recommended kratom, but I really don’t know anything about it, but at this point I am so depressed from the pain, gained 20 lbs from the last migraine medication (migraines daily) now they want to do botox shots. I have to work because my husband is on disability. I work over 50 hours a week in the health care industry. Love my job, but don’t know how much longer I can do it. I am tired of being looked at like a drug seeker from the pain clinics who do not understand Fibro. I tried smoking pot, but I hate the smell and the taste and all it did was make me dizzy and throw up. No pain relief. Please if anyone can help me to know which strain to use for pain I would be indebted to you. I cry nightly and can’t stand it any more. Suicide is not an option, but damn there are days where if the good Lord took me I would be ok with that.

    1. It makes me very sad that no one has responded to you, I myself do not have fibro or chronic pain of any kind. I have not even tried multiple strains. I myself am I recreational user. (every other day when I’m on a streak of sing it) I have only tried the Green Indonesian strain from Moon Botanicals. As such I cannot confidently recommend any one strain but I can give the advice of just trying them out and seeing what works for you. Around $30 got me 100 grams. (much more than I ended up using) It seems that Ultra Enhanced Maeng Da is great for the painkilling. As I said I’m still very much a novice but I still wished to help you as more recent entries received replies and yours did not. You may even get better information from others in this thread. I hope you find something to help with the pain. I wish you the best.

    2. Holly, I have fibro-type pain also (dx fibro but I’ve begun to think I actually have CFS). Nothing works as well as opiates,but I’ve used kratom successfully for withdrawal and pain management. I read so many different sites recommending this or that strain and dose,and couldn’t keep them all straight, so I finally just ordered several different types. My understanding is that people will react differently so YMMV, but I have found the (red vein) Borneo strain and Super Indo to be the best for pain. Borneo helps me sleep; until you’ve experimented w/it I wouldn’t recommend taking it when you have to work. It’s the only strain that has ever made me feel ‘dopey'(but only mildly; nothing like marijuana,which I also hate). Red Vein Thai helps with pain and energy but I can’t seem to find a dose that gives consistent results. Maeng Da has been the best all-around strain for me; it does a decent job of managing pain, mood and energy levels. I would recommend starting with 1/2 tsp of powder or 1 tsp of crushed leaves and see how it affects you (I have to take more than that). Sometimes it begins to work within 10-15minutes; sometimes it takes an hour. It can make you nauseated. I have chronic nausea so I have an rx for ondansetron (Zofran),which is an awesome anti-nausea medication but insanely expensive; if my insurance didn’t cover it I’d just have to go without. So I can’t speak much to the nausea side effect b/c while I have had some nausea when taking kratom, I also have it when I don’t take it. Again,your experience may be radically different from mine, but hopefully this will at least give you a starting point. I have so far tried only one vendor, Kraken Kratom. I suspect it’s probably good to find a vendor you like & stick with them so you don’t risk inconsistencies in the kratom you get. I want to try a two or three other vendors – nothing wrong w/Kraken, they’re fast and reliable; just so I have a comparison .
      One more note, especially if you need something for nausea and are able to get Zofran — be very careful combining medications…I’ve had doctors prescribe dangerous combinations several times & have had to advocate for myself (once had a dr rx fentanyl and hydrocodone while I was already taking xanax, Zoloft and Zofran w/the occasional Flexeril; all of those together are good only if you’re hoping to die of serotonin syndrome).
      Sorry for going on for so long and hope this is helpful to you &/or others. Pain sucks and the newer CDC opioid guidelines are IDIOTIC.

    3. I totally understand your mental and physical pain. I’ve had several surgeries that has left me worse off. The pain gets so unbearable at times and I work 80 hours a week. I found krantom and it’s been a life saver! I use Bali and green Ma Da. I no longer need to use opiates for my pain. Also, you will not suffer withdrawal symptoms. Krantom starts working instantly!

    4. You might want to try CBD oil, does not get you high but helps with pain

    5. I’m so sorry for all your pain.. I have Lyme, but thankfully was finally diagnosed correctly after 4 yrs. Kratom has done wonders for me. I’m a self employed artist and could barely get out of bed to make art or participate in an art show. I still don’t work as much as I’d like to, but I finally do see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hang in there, 💚💚💚 kate

    6. Holly,

      If you haven’t decided yet, I’d recommend white bali kratom. You can also find a sampler pack. You may want to try red bali, borneo, and maeng da as well. Just realize that dosage can vary based on the strain, or even between different purchases of the same strain. Start by taking a very small dose and see how it affects you. Some strains are more stimulating, some more sedating. They all have at least some painkilling effects, so don’t worry too much about that. Any kind is better than nothing. The white bali I recommend is somewhat stimulating for me, and great for pain.

      Also, if you weren’t aware, addiction is a possibility with kratom, but it sounds like you’re at such a point with your pain that you need to try something. Make sure it’s not illegal where you live, if that’s important to you (some states have banned it, and a federal ban may be coming).

      I’m sorry that you have to go through this. Don’t lose hope. I hope that kratom will be just the help that you need. I will be praying for you tonight.

    7. Hi Holly, I have fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, & degenerative disk disease. Was on oxycodone, for pain, & adderal, for chronic fatigue, for 10 years & recently weened myself off because of the hassle of having a pain management & mental health providers. Before I did, however, I bought some Maeng Da & white vein Bali. I could not believe how well it worked. I take 1 Tbs. of Maeng Da every morning, for pain relief & for energy & motivation, & 1/2 tbs. white vein Bali at night, for pain & to help me sleep. Kratom is a God send!

    8. I also recommend purchasing online. I tried purchasing at a smoke shop & it was not good product. Also, you can probably stop opioid immediately upon starting Kratom but DO NOT use them together.

    9. Wow i totally understand. The feeling. In my life every few months new pains pop up. Now my whole body hurt. Its not all in our heads. Its a true nagging never let u off the hook pain. A few weeks ago. As a mover for. Moving company hada forty pound bedpost. Fall on my shin. While i was sitting on break from 8 feet high. Hurt like the devil. iflated my leg , but even this painpaled in comparisonto the everyyday. Arthritic pains assosiated with rhematoid arthritis. Ive found Maeng Da. Kratom. Super helpful. Along with an excedrin a day. Before. I started the kratom. Was taking 5 a day excedrins. With two aspirins. And a 10 mg percoset on occasion maybe 2 if things gor real bad. Now kratom seems to be doing well. Would like to try DL phenillanine as well. If things get worse……….for now kratom a lifesaver

    10. Hi! I was just curious on how you take your Kratom. I have about a kilogram of Green MengDa and have taken one tea spoon with a shot of warm water and a teaspoon of honey. My question is does anyone know how to protentiate Kratom? Is it better mixed with Citric acid like OJ? Thanks again

    11. I feel your pain(sadly pun intended) but there is hope. Kratom has worked wonders for me, after being on opiates and anti depressants and suboxone and Valium , you name it. Bali or Maeng Da kratom once a day for me and I feel relief. I get mine from Velvet Soul Naturals. Getting the right dose down may take time but I take teaspoon at a time and wait for effects and redose if necessary but only after a couple hours. Keep your chin up, there’s always a way to make things better.

    12. Hi Holly, I am so sorry to hear you have fibro too, I am using kraton for pain, sleep and opiate withdrawals. I just started using kraton a few weeks ago but this is what I have learned from a website called”kratom science”.
      Green vein maeug da for daytime 1 1/2 tsp every 4-6 hrs.put in sm shaker cup with juice.
      White vein sumatra or Bali for sleep.
      That website will help with most questions.

    13. Holly,
      I was just scrolling reading comments, and yours caught my eye. My mother has fibro as well, and I’m wondering if she passed it on to me. It’s not in your head! People doubt what they don’t understand. I’m going to try Kratom hoping it will help with my pain. I really hope you found something to help you, as well! You sound like a strong, hard-working woman. You’ve got this! Always remember God has your back!

    14. Like you, I myself suffer from chronic pain. Had physical therapy 3 times, multiple surgeries and unfortunately the only medication that helps my level of pain is strong narcotics. With a medical background I know how doctors do not want to prescribe narcotics nowadays. Pains even so bad that I’m in the er multiple times s month. I started taking Maeng Da strain. I have been nothing but pleased with it. My mood has been lifted, my pain is not bothering me. It’s wonderful.

    15. Mrs. Holly I would like to encourage you to look into Fibromyalgia Centers of America. There may be someone in your area. I am a doctor with them and I have been getting good results with my patients with fibro. Hope this is helpful. Let me know if I can be of any assistance

      1. Hello Doc!

        I’m a massage therapist and I have been working with Chiropractic doctors for over twenty years. I just want to say that I hope you post more here. Most people don’t realize how much chiropractic care helps with just about everything. One doc I worked with has been in practice for SIXTY YEARS. I learned so much from him, and every other doc I worked with. I began working as a medical assistant in traditional medical offices and the difference in outcomes vs outcomes of chiropractic is amazing. I’m also a pain patient who believed only opiates could help. I have CRPS, and there’s just not much adjustments can do about that. Kratom got me off all opiates and my health has vastly improved. I hope you recommend Kratom to your patients, and are helping us fight the current proposal to make this wonder plant illegal. A doctor’s opinion goes a very long way. 😌 Sincerely, Lori Zambrana McIntosh

    16. Hey Holly. I am pretty new at Kratom myself, but heres how I started and its working pretty well ( i am using it to wean myself off heroin ). For pain relief, stick with a red strand. Start by either mixing 1-2 grams with liquid or putting it in empty capsules ( you can buy them at health food or vitamin shops ). If mixing it with liquid, give it up to an hour and see how you feel. At that point you can take another 1-2 grams if needed or not. This is how Kratom works- its an opioid agonist. That means it fills the same receptors in your brain that are occupied by opiates. It also contains a minor alkaloid thought to be stronger than morphine. The best part is you cant overdose. If you take too much, the worst thats going to happen is you will throw up. Thats it. Hope it helps!

    17. I wish you the best and if you find any vitamins that help. Let me know. Going to start taking pure apple cider vinegar and tumerac vitamins. Good Luck. People DON’T understand!!! From Pennsylvania

    18. Hello holly, I can empathize with how you feel. I don’t have fibro or not diagnosed. I work in medicine and I know how doctors are about fibro, pain problems, depression etc. I too suffer from chronic pain, fatigue, depression. I’ve been taking pain medicine for years. There are certain antidepressants that do actually help with pain and fibro. Have you ever tried Elavil?? I’m on it now and i noticed without it that I’m in a great deal of pain. It actually helps with nerve pain. Other medications that may help are lyrica or neurontin. Hope that helps. As far as the doctors go…. If they don’t believe you then go find a more sympathetic compassionate doctor that’ll work with you.

    19. I understand pain such as yours. I to suffer with pain Holly that is relentless and have tried many different Doctors and medications, I have spent around $150,000.00 in US dollars on medication in the last five years due to an injury that has been disabling . First of all the truth is we place to much faith in the medical system and think that doctors know more then they do and can somehow repair our bodies. Please don’t misunderstand the difference in Healthcare and Medicine, Healthcare in better termed Disease Management and the Emergency Room services as Medicine. I believe we have the best Emergency Room services in the world but are still using 100 year old systems for Healthcare. We the injured need to take responsibility for our own healing and own it, that said and understood we start the new journey. I was treated with ketamine in a Hospital and had a wonderful side effect , a disassociation with my injury/pain. I was able to look at my injury/pain without emotional/Psychological attachment and with a logical mind. And this is where my healing began.

      If a person has exhausted their approach with Western Medicine or has lost their understandable faith in the system, then your are now at the beginning not the end. I had to put aside my Cognitive dissonance and begin searching for logical treatments. I was raised in a conservative, religious, American family with traditions and culture however, these became obstacles that needed to be circumvented. I am still all of these things , I am simply a Free Thinker and live outside the box at my own will. If one cannot deal with these issues they are held by an invisible force of defeat.

      I have now tried unconventional means that are increasing my health each day, I call this ” My New Normal” I am not the perjured self, I have arrived at a new starting point of midlife. I now am creating a new self without the cares of insignificance. There are many approaches you may occupy, think outside the damn box! Don’t listen to others that seem to not understand find those on similar journeys and take note. Not everything is a fit but many may aid you’re healing. Start with the personal things that are within your control: Diet changes, regular exercise, good sleep, personal time, prayer/meditation, vacation (this helped me get my start) and others. This is my biggest struggle because it takes discipline and habit formation but is very necessary for change. Then come the influences of life: Friends, family, church, media, leaders, bosses, beliefs, education,music… remove all negativity from your life or as much as you can control. Again this takes discipline and are in your control. Removing some of these may seem painful at the time but will bring healing in the future. (remember to replace them as needed with positive ones) Then come the “OUTSIDE THE BOX” If you are on this type of site you are already searching and have started. look up , Dr John Beggman Youtube, reed : Dr Sarno “The Divided Mind” and Dr. James H. Austin “ Zen and the Brain” Dr. James H. Austin book “Zen and the Brain” Dr.Bernie Siegel is wonderful in his approach. This will help get you started.


      Dr. Jonathan Kuttner “Overcoming Chronic Pain”
      Also check out his channel on “Mayfascial Release”
      His videos contain a lot of helpful information.
      Video of his journey with pain

      Dr. John Sarno book “ The divided Mind- The Epidemic of Mindbody Disorders”
      Interview, the first of five videos

      Dr. Bernie Siegel book “ Inspiring True Stories of Healing, Gratitude and Love”
      This was very insightful and explains the power of will

      Dr. John Bergman “ How to Take Charge of Your Mind”
      Also check out his channel, he has much more and juicing and diet information

      I have so much more outside of these however, my response is pretty long as is I hope you welcome my ideas and they help.

      1. Hi there! What a positive message you gave! 😊 Can you please email me? [email protected] I have chronic pain that has severely worsened my depression & anxiety, and I have a question for you. Thanks and hope you are well.

    20. Hi Holly
      I have tried botox inject. And it seems to help some areas but not all. I got radio frequency injections for my headaches from disc fusion and it was a life saver but again it didn’t help other areas. I’ve had epidural inject in my neck for arm and hand pain and numbness and it helped. But I still have muscle pain so I have found white maeng da in the morning does great. I’m not a fan of green strain (shaky). I didn’t find anything in red Bali, so I can’t really say much on the red strain. I’m trying yellow at the moment so we will see. Good luck to you and I hope you find the right one for you.

    21. I have fibromyalgia too and have just started exploring kratom. I can totally identify with being as drug seeking by doctors. It’s so frustrating. I wanted to ask how Iran been working for you. I realize you’re post was in November and were now in April but I’d love to hear your feedback.

    22. Holly, I have fibromyalgia as well and I tried Bali kratom. It worked for my pain, didn’t get rid of it completely, but it was much improved.

    23. I am taking red Bali for chronic pain. arthritis, pinched nerves, spine nerve pain. I am not wanting a sedative effect. Is there a red for pain that is more potent than the Bali, or is that the best red for debilitating pain?

    24. Have you been tested for Lyme disease? Your story sounds similar to mine and after about 10 yrs. Finally a diagnosis.

    25. Im with ya…did you happen to find any relief from kratom? If so where did you order from and which type did you get? I’m also just researching and hoping this may be a good resource.

  32. Hi all. Chronic pain patient for almost 12 yrs, same med hydrocodone/apap 10mg x 6 per day. I’ve tried most of the other pain meds and they were either too strong or the side effects were overwhelming. I don’t get 24 hrs of pain relief and I’m so over the pain and living my life around Dr’s appointments and refills. My pain will never get better only worse with use of my joints. I want off the opioids. But yet I don’t want to deal with the pain either. Catch 22 there. I came across kratom. I have a few questions.

    What strain will allow me to just stop the norco without miserable withdrawal symptoms? And how much and how often?

    What strain will help with joint pain, chronic dislocations, bone on bone contact?

    I’m in the Detroit area, is there a place I can go in and purchase? Or is it just online only?
    Thank you for any advice you can give me.

    1. Go to the roadshow on Gratiot Ave. near 12 mile Road. Its in Roseville. They have excellent Kratom. Any of the strains should do but recommend Red Vein for pain and sedation. Green is also great but less of a sedative. Good Luck!

    2. I had 2 back surgeries, have a falling disk. Was facing another surgery. Was on Vicodin for years then OxyContin was added as well as high dose fentanyl. And Valium and ambien and Valium and cymbalta. Still had bad pain. Only very sleepy and mood altered. Had an emergent family situation where I may have to get custody of kids. Stopped everything within 2 months. Clonidine helps with withdrawal. I did this at home. Yes I had pain and anxiety for a while. Got a horse…. dealt with life issues. After being off all that a couple months pain radically decreased. Never rode before but found at Barn… riding, mucking stalls ect. I had no pain. Tolerated more pain. I get pain after a mile or two walking…. sit down for a while. After 6-7 months found Kratom. Take Bali red … 6 caps maybe twice a day…. sometimes go days without needing it. A friend once told me narcotics increase pain pathways. She was right. I had more pain on narcotics than after a couple months being off. Only on smallest dose of temazepam for chronic insomnia. Advil and Kratom. I’m sooooo happy to live not worrying every day about when to get pills, going to dr and pharmacy! Get involved in something like activism, horses. Something that demands your full attention. If you take too much u will get nauseous. Would not recommend using it with narcotics. Deaths have occurred with people using both. If I could do this right after becoming a widow, I really believe anyone can. Good luck 👍

    3. I’ve noticed that taking small doses of any strain subsides the hydrocodobe withdrawal. Was taking 10mg, 10 pills a day. Tramadol and kratom made the withdrawal vanish

      1. can i ask what type of doc you were seeing that would prescribe that kind of dosage. only bc my doc has prescribed me 10mg norco 3 x day for the last 15 years which obviously doesn’t help anymore. but in the past thru out the years i would tell him it doesn’y work anymore and he refused to increase it in fear of me becoming addicted. each time i brought up tolerance he just dismissed it and said what i was on is enough to control my pain. Extremely frustrating! but now i’m going to try Kratom. so just curious what kind of doc will increase when it stops working

    4. The best store for kratom in the Detroit area is Smoker’s Alley on Gratiot near Martin in Roseville. Huge selection and good prices for a head shop. Take a look at their photos when you google them.

    5. Hi I am new to Kratom. I was on 60-80 mg/day of either Norco and Percocet for the past 10 years. I was so over being tied to the pills and tried Kratom last week. I LOVE IT! No Pain, No anxiety, No RLS. I literally replaced the pills with Kratom and have had NO withdrawl symptoms. I couldn’t believe it. I use Red Maeng Da and Green Maeng Da. You definitely do not get a euphoric feeling from it so don’t do it for that. Do it for the pain relief and feeling of normalcy. I hope this helps people.

    6. Hi I came across your questions on this website and wanted to give u some advice. I’ve been taking Kratom for 2 1/2 years now and there’s not enough space for me to praise it enough. I was heavily addicted to subuxone for 2 years, and before that 5 years of opiate addiction. This was all recreational not for pain management. Kratom saved my life. It won’t take away the withdrawal completely, but it does help to make it manageable. I use white or green maeng da daily. The withdrawal from opiate pills isn’t as bad as people think. For me the first week was hell but after that it was very easy to manage. Subuxone was a different demon altogether. 6 weeks of pure hell, and it was a full year till I felt completely normal again. Take my advice and don’t let anyone convince u to use subuxone to kick a pill habit. There are charts online that tell which strain of Kratom is best to help your symptoms. Hope this helps and feel free to email me with any questions or thoughts.
      [email protected]

    7. Red Bali! Changed my life! Will take away 99%of side effects and great for depression

  33. I just learned about kratom I have chronic back had 2 surgeries and my lower spine is now metal and fused plus I have had had 3 hernia surgery in my stomach and need to lose weight any suggestions also can some one overdose on it

    1. People generally start with the Maeng Da strain since it’s supposedly the “pimp grade”. It’s where I started and I liked it enough but since have found that I preferred some of the other strains. As far overdosing on it, I’ve done that as a rookie. Thinking I would get really high, I took like 20 grams at once (I weigh like 100 lbs). Instead, I got light-headed, nauseous, jittery and unsteady. I could barely walk. I considered calling an ambulance but waited it out instead — it wore off within a couple of hours. Lesson learned.

      1. Same thing happened to me. It was very scary

    2. No u cannot overdose on it worst case scenario u commit . I’ve bn taking kratom fr over 7 yrs find a strain an adjust urself accordingly
      Best wishes0

  34. Kenneth,

    Can you recommend what I will need for Suboxone withdrawal? I’m tapering now and currently at 1mg. I need to taper sort of quickly due to limited supply of Suboxone and I know what I’m getting ready to deal with. I’ve heard about Kratom from several sources and plan to try it in hopes it helps with the w/d.

    PS I am not nor do I expect any advice from you to be a be a substitute for medical advice. I understand this is just your own personal knowledge.

    Thank you so much

    1. My wife uses the Meang Da after 5 years on Suboxone. We tried all of the available strains but the Meang Da stops the opiate “Jones” and provides the energy and clear mind needed to raise a family. Try them all till you find what’s best for you. The “k-shot” liquid extract was the first she tried and with in a week she was cured of the opiate disease.

      1. Red Bali!

      2. Another great strain to try is Red Bali. It’s uplifting, pain relieving, and feels most opiate like. Many people I know used Red Bali to get off opiates. I weaned myself off suboxone over a month or so. Found Kratom a month later and it definitely curbs my desire to use. Been opiate free for just over a year! Good Luck

        1. I am taking red Bali for chronic pain. arthritis, pinched nerves, spine nerve pain. I am not wanting a sedative effect. Is there a red for pain that is more potent than the Bali, or is that the best red for debilitating pain?

      3. I agree with John. I just stopped suboxone two weeks ago. The Red Maeng Da has been a lifesaver. Energy thru the day and it stopped the restless leg insomnia dead in its tracks. Also has great pain killing effect. Good Luck! Get your mind right and know its gonna be worth it!

    2. I am a recovering Heroin addict and have been on Methadone for over 8 years 120 mil.daily I’m 54 years old so I have really been through some hellish detoxes fast forward went through the detox suboxone took a while not going to lie, but Kratom made the detox so much easier to handle Kratom will “very much” HELP but it’s “assistance” not a cure you will still have to go through your detox and if you plan on staying “Clean” there are some other things you will have to add. Good luck and just do it get clean whatever it takes right, Peace DeadHead Dan

    3. john,
      I have 3 bulging disks and it hurts to no end. typical hydrocodone was the primary treatment. I heard of this magical plant and it is all that! not only is it effective in killing pain, it makes me happy. it works, for me at least. Its amazing the effectiveness.
      I Use Ultra White Meang Da. they only had crushed leaf when I purchased but I ran it through a coffee grinder and made ultra fine power out of it. Believe it or not, I take it will Coffee Sugar/Hazelnut and I actually REALLY like the after taste.
      Give it a shot, if it doesn’t work for you, then so be it… but if it DOES, you wont regret it.

    4. I felt no withdrawls w/using kratom(it totally replaced norco). I did end up vomiting and sweating profusely b/c I took too much. Do not start out taking a lot. Start w/a teaspoon wait 20 min. B4 taking more. Rotate strains every few days.

    5. I would put the meds away and go buy some kratom. It work pretty dang well. I have had several abdomenal surgeries and have several bad problems with my back. The red kratom has to much of a sedative type of effect but you know what you need for your situation better than anybody. Most provide relief and you’ll have to try different ones to see what works best for you but the big thing is to stop the pain meds so you will be able to tell what works best for you. I wish you luck and will be praying for you.

    6. I have just recently reduced then withdrawn from subutex, (been on it for previous 10 years). I didn’t use lofexadine, just 2 grams of a red vein kratom and 1 gram of a green vein variety. i was only using that once a day, but depending on the duration of opiate use, and size of dose normally taken, then you may want to tweak that dose to twice a day, possibly with greater dosage.

  35. My eyes seem to have a film, drainage and puffiness. Does this have anything to do with mayla, horned or borneo? I know it affects my vision some. But my eye lids swelling and drainage is what I am wondering about.

    1. Sounds like a fungal infection bro.

    2. Hi Sherrie. I have not received my first order of katrom I have been on 4 mgs of Suboxone/ Bubrenorphine for four years. Though this may be a coincidence not related to katrom, I have been dealing with runny and swollen for three months. Do you take subs? DC

    3. It’s allergies. I have it too.

  36. I have been on pain meds for years because of crohn’s disease. I have just heard of kratom. What would be the best to try for relaxing and to help with pain?

  37. I have been a chronic pain suffer for going on 10 years. The doctor that I’ve had forever recently left my practice. Before she left and let her know my concerns about the current regimen of meds that I’m on and my worry that a new doctor would change everything setting me back. She assured me that my chart was noted and then everything would remain the same that my new doctor would only want the best for me. Fast forward a couple of weeks I called in for my prescription only to have a nurse call me back to set me up with an appointment for pain management. I told her there must be some mistake since I had already been through pain management and physical therapy multiple times with no results even going as far as to cauterizing all the nerves in my lower back. She told me she would call me back and when she did she let me know that the doctor would refill my prescription by half and only to wean me off of it. And after that she would no longer refill my prescriptions. The nurse asked me if I would like to set up an appointment to discuss this and I told her yes before I could even get to the parking lot the nurse called me back to tell me that the doctor didn’t see any point in an appointment at this time. Now mind you I was only taking between 15 to 20 mg of Percocet a day. But it allowed me to function and not be a prisoner to my home. So now because of the stigma that follows opioids around I’m scared I won’t find a doctor to help me. I’ve been researching kratom and would like to try it but when I went to order it I found out that it can’t be sent to Wisconsin. I feel like I’m running out of options and I’m beginning to understand why people turn to street drugs. What a depressing thought

    1. Sarah et al. : This is quite lengthy, for which I apologize. The asterisked paragraph cuts to the chase. The rest is my experience and observations. Hey, I’m old and have no life thanks to massive pain and the inability to use my arms. (Did I mention I was a runner and salsa dancer, and ‘looking substantially younger than her stated age’ until some doctors destroyed me, grrr….)

      I worked for over twenty years evaluating medical care and occasionally doing clinical research, quitting two jobs, while in San Diego, over patients’ lives being threatened due to profit incentives. Ironically, I later tore both rotator cuffs while working out and ended up having the cartilage of both shoulders dissolved, with a ‘chemical burn’ to the underlying nerves and bone, thanks to a corrupt clinic in Salem, OR, and the continuing suppression of established research that the major local anesthetics, lidocaine and marcaine, are massively toxic to cartilage and other tissue.

      I recently moved back to Pgh, PA (forty years after going to grad school there), where some of the research on this was done, only to have an experience very similar to your own, after going through a four week, horrible withdrawal ‘cold turkey’, on my own with no support at 71. My condition is described by researchers as ‘devastating’, and the only remedy is limited motion and opioids, per the most respected orthopedists treating it, and it’s still impossible to get pain relief.

      The financial reasons behind this, in part: Lilly and Purdue’s 1.8 billion investment in an, as yet, non-approved opioid competitor, Kolodny’s ties to Phoenix House, a chain of truly greedy addiction rehab centers, and the extra cost of monitoring and treating pain patients to both insurances and medical groups, but those in control have decided to wipe us out and use an exaggerated epidemic as a smoke screen. The US as early Nazi Germany, when no one would face the reality.

      I was ready to move back to Oregon, to a town I hated, just to resume opioid treatment, only to have my former PCP, who I thought was honorable, write that now that I’ve ‘tapered off’ opioids, he would not restart them.

      ***What you need to know: My previous opioid use was 6.5 years, with a minimum of 60 oxycodone/day to keep the pain at bay. I had been at an additional 40 mg of Opana ER but had weaned to 20. I really only needed one for sleep and breakthrough pain occasionally. After the WD was over I lay curled in a ball on my loveseat for four days–with a .38, waiting for an express delivery of Kratom. It was all I could do to keep from pulling the trigger, as the pain was unbearable, and I have a high tolerance. (The surgeon who did my operations–and played a large part in causing the damage said, wow, you must be some mind over body person. And, I was, but I’ve been bested by this.) Anyway, I kept telling myself to hold on, there was a chance the Kratom could work, although I had little confidence–a reason I had delayed ordering it until utterly desperate. It worked. (I used Red Vein Bali.)***

      Now, I live in terror of further bans–I wanted to return to San Diego, but that’s out at present. I absolutely will terminate myself if Kratom becomes unavailable, but not without first making serious waves. I worked teamed with doc’s (‘hospitalists’) for years and what goes on behind closed doors for medical decisionmakers is as immoral and ruthless as the worst fictionalized portrayals. The truly knowledgeable and dedicated practitioners–like Forrest Tennant–still exist, but their numbers are too small to carry sufficient weight. (Again, think of the rise of Nazis. People like to use the word as a simple pejorative, but in this case, the analogy is spot on.)

      Be careful when you start.The second week I ended up in an ER with my very first case of hives, and one serious enough to almost warrant hospitalization. It was a histamine reaction (my first) to the combination of the Kratom and a frozen dinner with pesto, spinach and tomatoes. I learned more and opted out of the dinners, which I loved, sigh, but continued the same Kratom, purchasing some from another vendor, as well, in the event symptoms returned. They didn’t.

      In other respects…my cognition, per observers, including myself, is better on Kratom, the level of constipation from opioids is gone–from needing 8 stool softeners/day plus my high fiber diet to occasionally using one pericolace, the manner in which the pain returns is more gradual and less intense than on opioids, although the pain is perhaps not as thoroughly obliterated. I’ve never felt high on either opioids or Kratom, and I suspect further research will reveal pain signal blockage has an inhibitory effect on the euphoric response. If they would study that, perhaps there could be a selective process allowing use by those in pain while restricting those at risk of addiction. But, controlling addiction and saving lives is not the goal of the CDC or the DEA, money for their masters is. Oh, out of an MBA, I worked as a federal labor investigator.

      Pain patients really need to organize into a useful force, before we’re eliminated. We need to transcend our limitations and use numbers to have an impact and stop trying to court the favor of groups devoid of compassion and driven only by money and making concessions to public opinion only when it might affect profit.

      P.S. Investigating the golden cows of the anti-opioid marketing demonstrated an almost total lack of evidence for the claims, including side effects I had thought were well-established when working in pain management. MDs, for the most part, just parrot what they’ve been told without ever checking its validity.

      1. I’m so sorry about your pain about trying to get opiates but when you mention about an animal doctor hoping to write your pain and even ready to move back to a town you hate it just to get your medication sounded like me just a few weeks ago when I had a doctor for over 14 years after the last two years that she was my daughter before she moved away 14 years ago I called her last week to ask if she would write a note to say that I never abused opiates and she wouldn’t do that after I talk so highly about her… She crushed me when she said she couldn’t like such a no I thought this has to do with child protective services you have to try to help me with this they have me down as some drug addict person on the street.. And so ugly and so disgusting that they put on documents there is so much more to the story but basically like you said make a long story short… I’ve already been on Suboxone for 7 years and I don’t want to be relying on that but the only reason I ever got on opiates it’s because it helped my stomach issue which is like diverticulitis IBS… And that was it it was so innocent and that was in 2001 little did I know it would grow a dependency for real when I had trouble paying for doctors cuz most Suboxone doctors did not take my insurance I had to wait to get into groups that would take my insurance… So how can I overcome those weeks without which Robin I couldn’t I felt sick and I needed to be at moms at 5 to 6 kids… I was a late start on being addicted dependent on drugs as I like to say it.. and the horrible way I have been treated from people I didn’t ask for this so-called disease… These doctors somewhat know what they’re doing and they’re keeping people in jobs now that a so-called drug counselors they have to keep these jobs going just as child protective services now have bounties on picking on low income families to take old families and make new ones out of the ones they want to keep the keep chosen the healthiest children and then toss the rest off to the Wayside of these things are really true and people are not believe in our society has become so obsessed… I don’t know what this is caused by eye trauma syndrome if I see his wife I like to punch her in the face because when I see that it makes me sick… To see this woman wear high heel silhouette shoes and a most horrific tragic event that happens she gives to wear such Fancy Shoes then changes into snake is… How ignorant can a person be what happened to her sensitivity did she lose it or did you even ever have one or just too stuck on herself and I see their son he does look something’s wrong with him he looks like a loner and I kid that’s going to have a tough time dealing with people because he’s not around enough people that actually bother with them like they said you can be around people and still be alone that theory holds true… Many actors and actresses have that same problem.. That’s why I many celebrities take drugs to get them potty started and them because they cannot take all the extra excitement naturally… Unfortunately they get addicted and then they died from something that they once loved which was there acting a Korea and next thing you know it got ruined because it got too popular Too Much Too Fast Too Soon and they also get older and no longer have the energy to do it.. There’s so many reasons why people get into drugs and alcohol and abused it it doesn’t matter anyways.. Somehow we have to learn to do it ourselves with what information we get over the internet and other people’s ways that worked for them and try them out because I’m sick of going to psychiatry’s that don’t work I still try them but with a little luck.. I think more than realize I know just as much as they do and they get a little bothered that I’m not as dumb as they think I look at because when they tell me something I’m like try to be quiet and listen but then I’m like a lot of been there done that doesn’t work but thank you for trying anyways and eventually shortly there afterwards… With the faults of flying hope again at that I was going to get some sort of help.. The last time I was back in August 2013 just to get myself with six children and try to get myself to get food and groceries until I can get my license back… Unfortunately someone at Catholic Charities that had been with me for two years decided that I needed State called on me because I was going to be evicted little did she know I had money in the bank to cover me in a hotel I just told her right now I couldn’t find housing and I could really use some help as I am it since we’ve had a lot of refugees coming to our land a lot of low-income houses have been taken up so there’s less low-income houses plenty of Condominiums but who the hell can afford them… I don’t know if that made her get offensive or not but next thing I know I have child protective services knocking at my door fast Florida 3 years later… I read a thing about child protective services called The Business of child protective services..
        I read an article by the late Senator Nancy Schaefer sadly this lady was murdered I believe because she knew a lot about CPS that they didn’t want her to know… Google her name and you’ll find out more about her YouTube her videos and you’ll see that she had a sweetness with 5 kids and 13 grandchildren. I would have never made her family think that this was ever to be anything about a murder murder not murder suicide… Anyhow I found out more more why they need bounties for kids and good kids so they can keep guardian litem judges and court-appointed lawyers and so-called council is Excedrin and jobs and this is what I’m fighting now and I hope that people get on my blog and my Facebook and see what more I write about them but unfortunately I hope I don’t get the truth
        All this build-up because I started out back in my teen years with stomach problems that had to do with some of used and then some anxiety that had it in my way really bad in my twenties I got myself that I would that doctor who I gave a lot of credit to who now I’m so disappointed can’t even write a good letter about me back in the days when I didn’t take no meds for so many years I was a late start and using opiates and I only used two different kinds hydrocodone and a cough medicine.. It was so innocently done but when I go to store and that’s when I recognize the meaning of withdrawals… And then the problems begin from there and I had to start rehabs finally by November of 2011… I recognize more what opiates will all about and then bye 2015 16 I recognize What Child Protective Services were more about even though I was already having Whispers in my ear telling me be careful of them they would need children to keep themselves and jobs but I already knew that in my head I already had said it to other people myself only to be online one day and we need it by Saturday and I was so excited then I found out that she had gotten murdered and that would have been the late Senator Nancy who told the truth about the new forms of ways to make money in the government how sad breaking up families so what is America all about now anyways breaking up families low-income people are not to survive basically screw you if you have poor dot-dot or who I see right around with vehicles and taking up all the new low income housing in South America he didn’t come here with all this stuff ready for him he came the right way I’m sorry but we still do in the USA… We can’t even take care of our own veterans so how long do we push for other people to be in our country when we can’t even have our own back friends who saved supposedly our country from being enslaved by another country and us being owned by somebody else and yet we can’t take care of all that doesn’t make sense to me.. That’s like people making fun of me for having so many kids and say don’t breed them if you can’t feed them well America does the same thing they take in people from other countries yet they can’t even feed the ones that are you don’t know how to run your country your own self… On top of that you don’t even know how to take care of people with opiate use said you just watch him die on the streets and have stories to ride on the Nightly News to say how bad it’s looking when there’s so many things that could help people they just can’t afford it it’s not cuz they don’t want it it’s cuz they can’t afford it trust me people bake for the white stuff on the streets when they want to get off of drugs they just sometimes finally give up they don’t want to help people that have this problem they feel like they’ve already beyond help I see it and shelters I see it all the time they snubbed them off… Shelters are the worst of the worst they snubbed people off and make them look like they’re the worst case scenario like everybody there is a murderer I am at not everyone there looks like they’re on top of that game but let’s face it it’s not like American government is really helping those who are poor why because they don’t know nothing about engineering or how to build things so they’re not worthy of being taken care of that’s basically I have people think it’s only a ELITE that seems to survive these days…..
        I just wonder if this will ever stop I almost feel sorry about children into this world when I was a kid growing up I really thought there was going to be more Awkward for them and I see is a past and I see more ignorance and specially since I saw what it’s like to be homeless more than once and I took me 20 years before I was ever homeless as being all that I never was homeless until my late for thirties I couldn’t believe how badly there is help out there.. You really have to kiss somebody’s ass to get help and even then you might still get screwed over if you mess with the wrong people or if you have sick people run in the system.. And trust me there’s plenty of sick people that that so-called help for poverty-stricken people.. They know they’re desperate so they’ll use that against them and for themselves… I can write stories about that but why bother those people will never know how they got in his position makes me sick.. I would want to help people but I also wouldn’t want to promise stuff if I couldn’t deliver and I really wouldn’t want to make people be a slave to me because I thought we had abolished that over a few hundred years ago let’s face it I don’t think it’s ever been eyeballing that people are slaves to other people let’s face it not all of us can be millionaires or close to it otherwise who would of the so-called Elite and who would work at McDonald’s or Walmart… Nobody???? So what do they do keep you in need of the government’s help and drag that out no wonder people are sneaky and do sneaky things who blames them if it’s a way of survival… The government does the same thing as so doesn’t government officials and people that work for the government they know they do sneaky things all the time to keep themselves in a job that’s all it is a job a job a job to have money so they’re not out in the street being a bum themselves dot-dot so they can talk like they have a dictionary and a head where they’re little pinstripe suits and be tapping into a computer or a cell phone looking important and making sure they have everything updated such as cars homes status and even their golf clubs for Christ sakes.. But some of them are real but not that many that I meet they still have that phony like a car salesman pitch to them and it makes me sick sometimes to try to talk to him cuz they still talk down to people that I’m not in there groups.. Who’d want to be I best one better Grandma before I could ever speak to one of them again I guess.. I guess I got to get rid of my Swedish American accent…

        1. If you all are serious about activism, you need to understand more of why you have the Right to put any substance in your body you wish. No one owns your body except you. That’s fundamentally not challenged at the supreme court level in the sense that we are effectively owned by the people who are supposed to represent us. Here is a great website to get your mind clear on the socio-psychological impacts and reasons humanity continually stays on a downward spiral towards complete slavery: Mark Passio Please check him out. Especially if you are fighting addiction. The non-religious words that are spoken will give you the strength, courage, and Will to overcome anything.

        2. hey fell upon your letter great what you stated. keep up the good work

        3. Jesus, this is a forum on Kratum & you wrote a novel that has little relavance if any to the subject. Big Parma & Dr’s bad…end of story. Now let’s get back on track.

      2. If you are still in Pittsburgh, I’d love to chat. I’m a Crohns patient, with a battle cry, lol.

        1. I’m also in/near Pittsburgh. I have Crohns Disease also. Diagnosed at 16 but had at 11. So far 2 surgeries. Pain Med’s given lead to physical dependence, go on from there. I was on Methadone for about 10 years. Then suboxone for about a year, going from Methadone to suboxone was awful for me. As I said in another reply I weaned myself off (zubsolve) in about a month with virtually no discomfort or w/d.

          Kratom has curbed desire to use and I’ve been opiate free for over a year. You must be careful using kratom with Crohns. Everyone needs to drink extra water. Take 500-1000mg of magnesium daily too. I got severely constipated to the point I had to go to ER. I had impacted fecal matter. I couldn’t poop at all even with home remedies, stool softeners, laxatives. Laxatives made pain worse. I felt like I was having a baby out of the wrong hole, lol. What I had to go though to get all that cleaned out was time consuming and somewhat embarrassing. I have yet to find a Gastroenterologist I like. I didn’t grow up in this area. Perhaps we can chat⁉️Take Care

          1. I there another Pgh, Pa person as well.. Just North about 20 mins from town..

            I have had 5 brain operations and 4 shoulder operations. Will have another brain operations coming up in November from a brain malformation.. Would love to talk with you guys as well.. New to Kratom started Red Vein Bali. And also got Red Vein Thai.. I never sleep do to pain and insomnia.. Hoping this helps..

          2. Hi, I have had Crohn’s for 28 yrs, 3 resection surgeries & stage 3 Breast Cancer( now a 2 yr survivor). All this by the age of 43. We have relocated and starting all over with new Gastroenterologist and a partial obstruction found, but no refills on pain meds (which has been the same 10+ yrs of pain management from old Drs) So trying Kratom maeng da. Any updates on your experience? Thanks! Maryann

          3. Magnesium Citrate is the most bioavailable for constipation. I use Metamucil & a touch of Milk of Magnesia (magnesium hydroxide, best of all) for constipation meds. Just tried Kratum green Mae dong…so, so & then Sumatra green (excellant euphoria). Need to get off HydrocodoNE & it seems like Borneo red vein is recommended…will try that next. I hope it doesn’t make me sleepy. Anybody out there use Borneo or Bali red vein instead of opiates?

      3. Listen to Coast to Coast AM this Sunday night. Experts from our side of the fence going to talk about the “epidemic.”. Meanwhile, there is a new chronic pain group dedicated to rolling back the guidelines. Check the Alliance for the Treatment of Intractable Pain on FB.

      4. Wow!! That was realllly long and lacked any valid info – maybe it was the run-on sentences or lack of finishing One thought at a time. I went back to your ***paragraph and still found little accurate info. I have had CP for 18 years now following a violent attack in my own home by a stranger.
        I can understand A shady doctor, but All your docs, even in other states sounds like it may be on your end. If you have MRI’s/Xrays/Scar tissue from previous injuries, Those records will speak for themselves and not really get someone removed entirely off any meds (BTW, Fibro is Not even recognized in most countries other than the U.S.; Fibro does Not show anything on an MRI that could Cause pain in Every joint with zero arthritis or damage showing Clearly on the reports – which are read by Techs and not the doctors.
        This could be very misleading to ppl actually suffering from a tangible injury (herniated discs, calcium growing and pushing on nerves etc. ALL of which Do show up on scans) in over 18 years, I have come up on Specialists who were more stringent and would not Start a person on high levels (SIXTY Oxy/Day PLUS just for the breakthru pain from Serious Time Release meds?? Wow. That is a huge dose for things which are apparently not showing up with ANY doctors for you. TBH, I know I could not sit and type out an essay on how much Pain I am *Always* in, with Zero Relief even with more pills than patients on Hospice-End-of-Life would get.
        Glad you didn’t need to use the .38 @_# but as someone with the motor nerve cut but the SENSORY nerve Intact, seems like you may be dealing with more mental issues than physical. Neither “Fibro” now “Chronic Pain Synd can actually be *Found on ANY Scans or tests. Hmmmmmm — only your word against many specialists who have Decades of knowledge and experience.
        I got 37 red flags just from your descriptions of “Dibiltating Pain” but nooo cause or relief.
        Good Luck though, maybe a Chronic Pain Psychologist wouuld be able to help you. And ANY doc who would Px Benzos – and more than one at a time for same day use – WITH very strong opiates – is a Quacktor.

      5. Ms. Coe,
        I wanted to personally thank you. After becoming virtually debilitated by CRPS (especially over the last year) I am sitting down with my FIRST “cup of tea” and find your post here. I despise when someone says “I understand your …” , when they litterally have no idea. That said, after ignoring back issues for almost 20 years, my back finally blew out 2 levels. L4-S1. After my 1st surgery (2014) I was diagnosed with CRPS 2. The pain unrelenting from lower back to toes. After a slip/fall on some ice, I had my 2nd surgery to replace a 66% hardware failure (2015). By this time I had already lost control of my left foot, and you could measure progression by the color changes. By 2016 it had begun to affect my right foot, and the last time I felt my left was just before you posted your story, when a muscle spasm broke 2 toes.
        Until thus time last year I was limited in activities, but “stable” on 180mg oxycodone, 20mg oxycontin, 10mg valium, 1800mg gabepentin, and 1300-1400mg soma … daily. Never a missed dose, never asking for “more” (actually asking about alternative treatments like ketamine infusion to get away from Nacros). But then the DEA struck. I have all the documents that show exactly how and why (they are easily found online). My meds have been cut by roughly 70%, and over the past year, I have gone from being “helpful” around the house, to basically bed-ridden. Even though recently adopted Maryland law specifically exempts people like us from thus “guideline”(* SECTION WILL EXPLAIN LEGALITY OF THIS), my Dr is afraid, and has told me to feel free to find another Dr if I can/want (new Dr to discuss the iT pump next thursday). Ironically, since the “cut”, I have begun losing my left hand, my 20/10 vision has blurred, and NOW my teeth are decaying rapidly (contrary to when on higher doses of opioids…dental neural necropathy from the CRPS). Cutting my meds has actually worsened my condition.
        So, while I do not know YOUR pain personally, I do have a pretty clear understanding, and I am sorry that you have/are suffering so.
        As to the DEA… I had always supported them (until now), had worked with them (on “loan” from the Corps), trained and trained with them in my “younger days”. I NOW LIST THE DEA AS PUBLIC ENEMY #1. They have enacted a proverbial (possible actual) war against 1/3 of the Nation. Of that 1/3 they would suffer 96% to catch 4%.
        And you are 100% correct! Those of us in this war must band together and stop this QUITE illegal act!
        Here comes the *:
        * A “Guideline” in and of itself is a harmless “suggestion”, but when a “Guideline” is forced or used to enact penalties/fines, it is no longer a “Guideline”. It is now ENFORCEMENT. Enforcement BEFORE legislastion is, per the Constitution and The Bill of Rights, is ILLEGAL. Any subsequent Laws AFTER enforcement are therefore Unconstitutional and technically illegal.
        ** Ask: Why did the DEA partner with the CDC and not the FDA?
        Answer: Because the FDA had already started blowing the whistle on the DEA for arbitrary seizures, fines, and sanctions against doctors, pharmacies, and manufacturers. (SOME of it rightfully placed, but not enough for the $100’s of millions garnered).
        *** Ask: What is the true STRATEGIC reason for our deployment in Afghanistan and Pakistan? Terrorists or poppy fields?
        Answer(s): Last I checked we keep stomping the snot out of terrorists….in Northern Africa, but in Afghanistan and Pakistan our troops continually seize poppy plantations…where us the evidence that the heroin is DESTROYED and thereby stopped from getting here? The Government has already stated that the Opioid Epidemic is due to illegal heroin and fentanyl, so why attack the disabled? Because of all the economy it brings to law enforcement, from the beat cops to the courts, and all the way up that food chain.

        Ms. Coe,
        I am with you. In pain, in search of relief, and in pushing back. This is the 2nd time the DEA has acted so egregiously since their inception (the tail end of Vietnam). The 1st time severely damaged us as a Nation, and now here we are again. I say : Recall all troops except the 7th Fleet (because North Korea is a more eminent threat), shut the DEA down PERMANENTLY (all other agencies are capable of stemming the flow of illegal narcotics at our borders), destroy the root of the problem (lobbyists), impose limits on congressional terms (this gives US more control of what politicians can/will do), and adopt REALISTIC policies that care for the disabled but also properly administer enforcement against thise few corrupt doctors and patients that ARE guilty. They are not helping or strengthening our Country, they are decimating it. You cannot strengthen someone by tying their hands and restraining them in their bed. You mind as well start dragging doctors and patients into the streets and executing them…and of any Country, the ONE I swore to defend is the last I thought would allow this behavior.
        Lastly, “We the People” are DIRECTLY charged by the Constitution to hold the Government accountable and force reform if the Government has broken…and it is so broken that it m8re resembles a pile of broken glass than a functioning Government.

      6. I agree with organizing…I too need pain meds and live in Ohio, and have the ‘stigma’ portrayed across the country….makes me sooo mad. Anyhow, I have serious scar tissue problems in my spine from 7 back surgeries and have rods from my tailbone to my 10th thoracic region. I too worked in med. field as a nurse, and have been in pain management since 1997. I have been on Methadone for over 18yrs and was on the same dosage for about 8yrs. But, since Aug of last year, my doc kept lowering my dosage because of the Heroin abuse. This whole deal is bullshit and will cause people who are suffering in pain to buy off the streets. I am willing to join anyone who wants to fight for the pain sufferers across America. Just email me: [email protected] and let me know you are interested in doing something to fight this stigma.

    2. Hello,
      I have been dealing with chronic pain for 10 years as well. Green Vein Kali (not Bali) relieves my pain! I have not had relief with any prescription pain killers. The only problem is that I cannot find Kali anywhere except
      Currently, the company is only taking Bitcoin. They are supposedly changing credit card companies and should be back to taking credit/debit cards shortly.
      I have tried the new Kratom strain called Vietnam. It does relieve my pain, but it also makes me sleepy.
      I have been told that Maeng DA has stimulating and pain relief properties. I am going to order this today.
      Hope this helps!

      1. Hi Michelle
        I read your comment about the availability of the particular strain of Kratom you are looking for. I just began ordering mine directly from a grower in Indonesia. If you’re interested please reply to this email, and I’ll help you to get in contact with him.

        1. Hello, I seen where you said you have contact to purchase straight from Indonesia. If possible I would like this information. I’m a 32 year old woman with chronic pain due to Systemic Lupus. I have had a up hill battle with opiates due to this pain. I recently started using Kratom to help with my pain and fatigue, but find it quite expensive at around $20 a oz. I would like to find a good quality, and quantity. Thank you.

          1. This is the site I use. Great pricing. Have tried most. I like the White Maeng Da the best. Good luck

        2. yes I would love to know your direct link to Indonesia for the kratom

          1. I would also like to know your direct link to Indonesia for the kratom. I have fibromyalgia and have had chronic pain for years. So many MD’s, tests, drugs and injections with very little relief. My depression is terrible and I still have to work full time as my husband is disabled. I would appreciate any help you have.

        3. Please send me ur information on ur Indonesia connection for Kratom. Thank you !

          1. I too have CHRONIC PAIN, FYBRO, REFLEX SYMPATHETIC DYSTROPHY, NEUROPATHY, and type 2 diabetic I too am sick of my life revolving around appts. And pharmacy pick up days. kratom I’ve read can be a saving grace. I just don’t know what strain is best for chronic pain and anxiety. And would like to know from ppl with experience which is best and can you share and Indonesian sight for better quality of life

        4. I would like your direct contact info for Kratom please. I live in PA have Lupus and multiple other problems. Been on opoids 15 years currently 20mg oxycontin twice a day plus 5mg for break thru. Was on methadone for 2 years I weaned myself off. Had sepsis septic shock infection from cdiff last august 2016 my children were having me discharged into a rehab and I lost my memory. All I knew I was sick at home like a stomach virus. I was unconscience a week. My children are against opioids because they have lost several class mates and friends to heroin. If they knew my doctors have me back on them they probably wouldn’t talk to me. I’d like to get off myself. See if I feel better. I go through pain clinic now the meds are so hard to get. Please send me address and how much you take and what kind. What kind do you use? I’d like one in morning with a little stimulant and one at night without but if they do not work as well to get off opioids then let me know the best one to try. Thank you! Thank you! I’m hoping you can help me change my life.

        5. Please help me withyour contact info thank you and bless you

        6. Been reading all on board. I would be interested in your contact also. I’m new at this and right now there have been several people across the U.S. getting Salmonella from Kratom. I know a lot of imports to U.S. of foods, etc have been tainted, so my fear is becoming ill. Now with the opioid scare, or government involvement, I can’t even get a few Hydrocodone for pulled back muscles, so I’ve suffered for about a month. Better now but stupid!!! I am a caregover to my mom and would never be mentally altered, I rarely drink alcohol. I would love to try this alternative. But if it’s extravagantly expensive I’m screwed. I’d love to get seed to just grow my own. I also have Fibromyalgia and depression issues. But our state hasn’t caught onto Cannibis yet. Bible belt. Ha!! So if your not the Po Po, that’s police I’d like to have the info. It’s not illegal yet so let’s get this going. I’m a 63 year old woman and who cares if opioids are addictive. Thank you so much. Terri

        7. I left note earlier, how is payment made?

        8. Hi. Are you still ordering it ? I need it for pain and fatigue Thanks

        9. Hi John,
          If it’s not too much trouble I would like the info on your grower in Indonesia.
          thank you,

        10. Hello i would like that information please

    3. I have arthritis, osteoporosis, spurs in all my joints, aemia, herniated discs with spurs, anemia & all alleric to iron. I became disabled Feb. 2017.
      I lost my job of 25yrs b/c I was so I’ll. I didn’t have the energy to fight seeing as I was on my death bed.
      The following is the medication I was on together for 11 years.
      *Fentanyl patches 75mg (monthly)
      *roxycodone 150 (monthly)
      *xanix 90 (monthly)
      *Benadryl ( only when I get iron venously every 3 months)
      ×tazanidine (muscle relaxer) 60 monthly)
      *ambian (30) monthly
      *darvacett 500mg a day (60 a month)
      *VB12 injection (x2 a month)
      *Plaquenil x2 a day (60 a month)
      I just turned 51 & came to the conclusion I can’t listen to the doctors any longer, the way I’m being medically treated I’ll be dead in 2 years.
      #Long story short, I went off ALL meds above except vb12 & iron.
      I herd of a few oils & herbs. I’m the type of person that has to try things for at least 4 months before I tell anyone, including my doctors. I would continue seeing Dr’s & getting scrips filled (but not taking them)
      It’s been six months, the follow is what I take now (it’s been 6 months)
      KATROM (you have to find what works for you, I like WHITE BALI & MAENG DA. CDB OIL, You can find this in any “Health Nut” store. Ask for it b/c its behind the counter. Frankincense oil (there are hundreds of oils to use for different elements & all are expensive, however when I think of all the time energy & cost I’ve already used & got no response it’s worth it to me.
      Enclosing, All Doctors & heatthcare workers automatically view us as druggie

      1. Those doctors are Big Pharma supporting dumb asses. Congrats on getting off of all those poisons. Kratom is certainly addictive and difficult to quit but it is a million times better than all the big pharma crap.

    4. Have you guys heard of the break through treatments with ketamine? There are several anesthesiologist opening clinics to give intravenous ketamine for chronic pain and/or depression. It is suppose to be a miracle cure. You mention your in Pittsburgh..I know there is a guy in White Oak that does it. You go for 6 initial treatments within 2 weeks then maintenance treatment. Also, will kratom work if you currently take suboxone?

      1. Have you guys heard of the break through treatments with ketamine? There are several anesthesiologist opening clinics to give intravenous ketamine for chronic pain and/or depression. It is suppose to be a miracle cure. You mention your in Pittsburgh..I know there is a guy in White Oak that does it. You go for 6 initial treatments within 2 weeks then maintenance treatment. Also, will kratom work if you currently take suboxone?

        1. I’ve never heard of ketamine being used to treat chronic pain or depression. All I know is that people who have used ketamine, especially intravenously, go into what’s a called a “K Hole” and your like tripping your ass off and are completely fucked up. Maybe in a super low dose it could help with pain and depression, but I don’t know, seems kinda far fetched to me, but I’m definitely going to look into it now cause I’m very curious.

          1. Ketamine via IV, if done through a doctor, does not put you into a k-hole. It works wonders, and you don’t “act all Tripp’s.” It IS currently being used to treat depression and chronic pain, especially for those who have had opiate abuse disorder. However, it is not an easy program to find, and can lead to some dependency because it does cause some euphoria. Doctors can put you in a k-hole, for anesthetia purposes (during my second and third spinal fusions, we used ketamine and versed (not sure if I spelled that one right), in an attempt to counteract a resurgence of my opiate use disorder…ie addiction issues). After waking from surgery, I was on a continuous IV ketamine drip for over 8 days, and never had “the nods,”euphoric highs, etc. I also didn’t require any opiates during recovery.

            Kratom works great for my daily spinal and arthritic pain, and can ease depression side effects, although I do take it with a norepinephrine selective reuptake inhibitor.

            Just because a drug like ketamine gets abused on the street, doesn’t mean if administered properly and under supervision that it’s a dubious treatment. I highly suggest looking into it as an alternative to poisoning oneself with opiates.

            Oh, and for “credibility” here, I had my 1st of three knee surgeries in 1994. Have torn both rotator cuffs (supraspinatus tendon) in each arm off of the bone, tore my labrum in each shoulder, and have had 7 spinal surgeries, including fusions at two levels. I had been a high dose daily opiate user for over 20 years, and eventually went with a nevro spinal cord stimulator. Between that, kratom, and my nsri, I have reduced my daily pain from a 9/10 on the scale, 24 hours a day, to between an average of 1–2 daily threshold. Don’t believe or stigmatize drugs like ketamine because of its media coverage; humans can, and do, tend to abuse anything. But that doesn’t take away its potential medical value. Look for progressive doctors, willing to listen to you and your concerns, and not simp,y pill pushers. A good doctor will try and tailor a treatment for their patient, not just prescribe the newest pharmaceutical payoff pill being made…..

          2. I’ve heard ketamine can be great for WD from opiates. In low dosages it’s a disassociate drug. So it helps with all the physical discomforts of WD while boosting your mental state. I personally love k-holes.

            Keep CALM and K ON!!!!
            Lol…… Sorry had too

      2. Hi Renee,
        For the most part kratom will not work while taking suboxone. That’s because some of the same receptors are involved. However, if you skip days of taking subs or take 1/4 of a strip or less it can work but you need to take more. I’d recommend getting off suboxone before using kratom or if you are at a low dose due to tapering and experience w/d try some Red Bali. Start with a level measuring teaspoon and take more if needed.

        I suffer from severe depression. I’m on a bunch of different Med’s that I hate taking. Keep switching nothing helps!!! Can you direct me to find more info on using ketamine for depression and Crohns. I believe most of us suffer with depression from having Crohns. I’m desperate. I had ketamine once before surgery; I had broken both bones in my arm. I weighed only 110 but it took 5 separate injections to put me to sleep. The Drs. were baffled. I’d never had ketamine before that so idk why it took so much. Thank You

        1. Hello!
          Are you sure it’s Ketamine? It’s unusual for that drug to be used in a hospital setting. I have been using Ketamine for CRPS. I no longer use it, since using Kratom. Ketamine in a nasal spray can cause some people to actually hallucinate. Usually they try you out on the spray first, and later move to the oral drug. It works for CRPS, and supposedly that’s the most painful disease known to man. However, since it’s a compounded drug, most insurance companies will not pay for it, and it can run up to 1,000.00. Kratom is much cheaper and will not tear up your nose (Ketamine is worse than cocaine in your nose) or break your wallet. I’m in much better shape now than when I was taking Ketamine, Dilaudid, MS Contin, Valium, Tizanidine and Norco. I also was on methadone for pain. If it worked for me, it will work for anyone. I also have a genetic tolerance to all opiates, meaning I can take opiates that would floor a normal person. Even so, Kratom has broken the chains that kept me in fear constantly. Fear of being sick, of the DEA taking away my meds, etc. I feel better than I have in twenty years. I’m praying for your health and pain relief. Trust me, this is the way out! Lori Zambrana McIntosh

      3. Hi Renee,

        I am in Washington state and went thru Ketimine infusions with my Neurologist. After the first treatment, I cried on the way home experiencing pain relief for the first time in decades. When monitored by a physician, it is quite safe. Unfortunately, it was quite costly and I could not continue treatments, but I experienced significant relief for several months after each quarterly treatment. I would highly recocmmend discussing this option with their Physician to anyone.

      4. Ketamine doesn’t do much for pain, but it “resets” the opioid receptors to reverse tolerance buildup (in Europe it’s now standard that instead of increasing opiate after tolerance buildup to get ketamine treatment every few month (½ day in the hospital) to restore opiate sensitivity (similar effect can be achieved with dextrometrophan=Robutussin, but weaker)

    5. I understand completely, Sarah. I’m 54 yrs old and have been going to PM Group for 7 yrs. My regiment included 30 mg oxycodone 6 times a day plus 350mg Soma three times a day. Three days before my appt. in Oct I received a call telling me he’s no longer there and the doc that took over isn’t taking over his patients. Imagine my surprise! It takes at least a couple of months to get into a pm group. They did provide me with one month refills. With any luck I may get in I early December with another group. In the interim I decided to try kratom. I just received my supply of white Borneo and enhanced maeng da. I previously bought some capsules from a head store and they did not work at all. So don’t go that route if you can help it. It almost caused me not to try it ever again. I will let you know back on this post if it works for me.

    6. Drive to Iowa, it is legal here. They tried to ban it but it failed.

  38. Hello,
    Im new to Kratom use & have several different strains but have not felt any pain relief yet. I have kidney cancer & a 10 yr old child. My prescription opiods really knock out the pain but they knock me out as well. I want to be able to spend quality time with my daughter & not be knocked out by drugs or in so much pain that Im miserable to be around. I would really appreciate any suggestions on how best to use kratom. I feel like Im running out of time & I want to do more than just exist.

    1. Hi I’m so sorry to hear. Do you know how much you took? I’ve been told a scale is the best way to measure but people use measuring spoons, starting with a half teaspoon wait an hour see how you feel then try more if needed.
      It needs to be on an empty stomach so first thing in the morning is best I have read that you need to mix it with lemon juice to release the alkaloids
      There are instruction on the internet

    2. Hi there. I see this post is kind of old but I wanted to comment anyway. I started using kratom about 6 months ago and have a long history of back issues so I understand trying to knock out that pain. I tried several different strains and while they did work to an extent I still hurt so bad but I bought some Golden Bali and used it with just 2 alieve and that was my potion from then on. The alieve by itself didn’t work right and neither did the kratom but a small dose of otc meds with the Golden Bali worked great. Although sometimes it don’t. Sometimes I just hurt and nothing stops it. But I know for a fact I can’t the relief from narcotics that I get from this. I have tried that road. This mix lasts most of an entire day for me and I get 0 negative side effects from it. It really has changed my pain and my entire life. I’m awake and productive with little pain. God bless. Hope you find what you need

  39. P.S. It’s hard to say what strain would be best for you! I would just experiment, but start out with small doses on everything until you see how you react to it. Good luck!

    1. Yes I think you’re correct. When I first started I tried most of the strains and used all sorts of doses. Found that I love white borneo, and really enjoy 2 level teaspoons full. I’m from the uk and unfortunately I started using Kratom when it became illegal here, but there’s great venders in Europe I use. Karli

      1. Care to share the vendor info? Im up in the air about choosing the right vendor and need a little experienced knowledge 🙂

      2. I use Red Horned for pain and it is fantastic. Start slow as it can cause stomach upset. All Kratom is high in fiber so make sure you are drinking plenty of fluids or you will back up. I had back surgery 5 discs fused and I have not had to take opiates since going on Red Horn. I tried Maeng Da and several others but nothing has touched Red Horn.

        1. Hi Kim, I am new to kratom and I don’t know which vendors are the best to order from. I too have a bad back with three failed back surgeries andI just made an order from Oregon kratom but haven’t used any yet. What vendor do you get your red horn from? I think most of the problem that people have with Kratom is not knowing which strain to use and which vendor to order from. As you know there is a lot of crap out there that doesn’t work and people get turned off by that. Any information you can provide would be helpful. I’m in tremendous pain and need help who is this process. Thank you.

  40. Exactly what I’m looking for! I’ve been searching for a clear explanation of the different strains and some information along side with it. Thanks for sharing!

  41. I need two answers asap. See I am about to go on a missions project that is three months. The first month due to the DEA I will only be allowed 2 qweeks worth,when if I was to stay home i would get a months worth. WHAT is the most powerful kartom for pain. Also, I have a hard time sleeping when I have so much on my mind and this mission project with do it so what is the best kratom to help me get some sleep.

  42. hello
    I have answers and some questions for you on kratom. you can text me at 970-618-0401 or call

  43. Can anyone help me find a good online supplier? Also I have no idea what strain to use. I’ve got many things going on in my head so I probably need a mixture. I suffer from severe anxiety and have just recently taken myself off benzodiazepines because I’m tired of feeling trapped by them, but I have panic attacks all day now. I also am ADHD and about a month ago stopped Adderrall, so I need something that will give me energy but also not put me in a panic. (If that makes any sense) Then lastly, I was on heroin about a year ago, I don’t want to go back to doing it but I suffer with so much pain that I get scared. I’ve got 3 herniated discs in my back and I’m constantly hurting. So I’m kind of a mess, obviously, lol but I’m hoping someone can shed some light on this for me because I’d really like to try kratom and not be dependent on all these pharmaceutical pills. Thank you!

    1. I will check I’ve been using it for about a month or two now I’ve tried different strands if you want something that up you for depression for anxiety there is one that’s like that I will look for you or do you want one that’s like a sedative antidepressant and pain killer cuz there’s different blends have dibs different mixtures for pain chronic pain anxiety PTSD I will look for you and get back to you

    2. I just read your question/comment in the Kratom forum. Your situation sounds incredibly like mine w a few variances. I’d like to know what you found out and if anything has worked out for you. I have Bipolar, I’m on a variety of medication that cause major drowsiness. I was put on Ritalin a year ago but because of an Adderral addiction many many years ago, I have a very high tolerance. I am looking for an alternative that will give me the energy to compensate for the days when I am out of my Ritalin. But have no idea what strain or the amount that would be appropriate to gain the stimulant effect and NOT the sedative effect. I have 5 children, my life requires me to be active and on top of things. The depression associated w the Bipolar paralyzes me at times resulting in my inability to do what needs to be done for my family and therefore resulting in more guilt for hvng a mental illness that is oftentimes out of my control. I would appreciate and be thankful for any advice in this area

      1. I mix alittle red md in with some white md, the white gives you the energy while the red gives you the pain relief, always start small, if you don’t” feel” it after about 45minutes try another small dose. The white gets me talking too, sometimes I’m the quiet person in the room, but the white opens you up. Also check out kratom on reddit, a lot of good advice there

        1. Green vein in the morning. Mix a good red, Bali works best for me, in the afternoon. Then finish with a
          red when it’s time to get the kids down. White could be good in the morning, but small doses of green is better for bipolar. When you mix green and red go easy. Check reddit to help find a good, reliable vendors.

    3. Toss me an add on facebook – Kenneth McKrish

      1. Hi Kenneth,

        I have a broken neck and him taking a break from oxycodone. I like the euphoria and pain relief, though, but not the consequences of the cycle. Could you recommend or possibly send me a sample of something equal to or as good?? Have been on Kratom now for about four weeks from a vendor. But I’m learning a lot as I go 😲! It sounds like you are an expert & Know what you are talking about!

        Looking forward to hearing from you,
        Pam Moeller

        I’m going to send you an FB request!

    4. Hi K,
      I’m speechless by your post. Let me know if I still had a chance to help you out of your problems. I’ll send you kratom.

      1. I too wouldn’t like information I’m new to this and have been under a great pain mgt. Dr for years but really want to know what is best for pain and anxiety

      2. Hey. I’m a 24yo with disc/back problems since age 16. Been hooked on marijuana since 18. Do you think kratom would be good for me? Could I get sent a sample? Thanks

      3. Kenneth, being a chronic pain sufferer for close to 2 decades, and 2 back surgeries later, I’d love to try Kratom. I sent you a friend request. I also suffer from GADS. It’s a double whammy. Anxiety makes pain 10 times worse. Any info you can give me would be very welcome. TY!

    5. I’d like to send you some kratom to try. Please add me on facebook – Kenneth McKrish

      1. Good morning Kenneth, I just observed that you are a Kratom vendor,, and I have a few questions about Kratom as I am very naive as to the different strains and the effects of each strain, so any and all input/advice would be greatly appreciated!
        About me: I am a 45 year old Caucasian male with multiple health issues, including thoracic cancer, multiple sclerosis, along with a failed back surgery regarding my right scapula, and right rotator cuff.
        Long story short, I have been treated with a high degree of opiates throughout the past 14 years, and needless to say I am extremely tolerant to the effects of pain medication. To cut to the chase, I am needing a strain(s) of Kratom to help with pain, and to help with sleep at night, but also a strain for energy during the day.
        Again any advice would be much appreciated, I need to make the jump from opiates to Kratom, and I am nervous as to whether or not it will be effective for me?!
        Thank you! sincerely, John S

      2. Kenneth can you recommend what strain should be used to help with Suboxone WD?

        1. Any place to but it online that legit and reasonably priced? I would like to try it for my depression and migraines.

          1. Buy*

          2. Hi, Lisa. (:

            I’m pretty new to kratom, as well. Not sure if you’re still looking for an online place to purchase kratom from, but someone recommended “Gaia Ethnobotanical”;; to me. I like all the product options/prices, so far. I like that they have sample packages you can try – like, I just got (05) 01 oz. packs of individual strains (powder form) I picked out – for U$25.00 (total, not each pack). With MY situation/pain/insomnia/migraines/fibro/arthritis/&c., I don’t CARE if I get ‘knocked out’ or not. For ME sleeping/whatever thru pain; not having to be ‘aware’ during pain; is a bonus, not a problem. Tho, so far, I haven’t had that with anything that was suggested to me – Red Bali, Gold Bali, Red Dragon, Yellow Vietnam; and capsules called KALM that are supposed to help with my insomnia. Aaand, instead of ‘teaspoons’, it was recommended that I take (01)-(03) grams to start with…..but, again, that’s just me. Just suggestions/recommendations I, personally, received.

            Not sure if that helps you – or, anyone else! – but, I really do hope so. ;P

            Luck! (:

            P.S. They also have an email addy, and someone who, generally, seems to respond to questions pretty quickly – doesn’t leave ya hangin’ out there swingin’! (:

      3. I’m interested in trying some for constant back pain please help

      4. Kenneth, I am glad to hear that you Are the expert on kratom. Here is my situation I was a professional bull rider for 14 years, I have broken about every bone you can break I go to a pain clinic once a month for medication but I run out and I enjoy how I feel while I am on oxycodone that’s why I run out. What strain would you recommend that I try to not only stop my pain but also give me the high that the oxycodone gives

        1. Red Vein Bali for me, so far….

        2. Hey Mike:

          Bet you rode in my city, San Angelo Tx! Use Red Bali. I was on Dilaudid, MS Contin, methadone, Ketamine and Valium. I also was taking Vyvanse and Adderal for ADD. This stuff helps with EVERYTHING! No more running out, panic attacks and kicking the sheets for days because you did run out, or explaining to the doc why your tox screen shows no meds! I swear you won’t be sick ever again! Lori Zambrana McIntosh

  44. Where is the best online place to buy kratom? I want to try different stains… I’m gonna first try it from a smoke shop but I hear online is better and more better quality

  45. A very short post. If ANYONE is on subs, this is the only thing that will get you off of them. 5 years of snorting them- Kratom saved my life and took the awful w/d’s away. Bali is the best for this- good luck

    1. I agree. I was on subs for a long time for back pain. They were the only thing that helped kill the pain. When I got pregnant and needed to get off all opiates, kratom was a life saver. I wouldn’t wish the withdrawal effects of the subs

    2. I just bought 28 g to test this theory and found it to be true. Ordered a lot more and will be dropping my subs all together. Why isn’t this more available?!? All this time fighting to get off this crap and this miracle plant isn’t known!

    3. You’re absolutely correct. I am currently using Red Bali to come off a 3 yr sub rx. Started subs after leaving pain management bc I was tired of being married to the pills. I traded one for another with suboxone tho. Tired of taking that as well I researched and found kratom. Bali, so far, is the ONLY thing to rid me of my worst w/d symptom: RLS. It’s a life saver for sure

    4. Cool man thanks. Ya I’ve been taking subutex so I’m looking for the best Kratom to help with that. You think the Bali is the best huh? Where do you buy your Kratom at?

    5. March 30th is when I stopped subs with kratom. Haven’t touched one since! This is the only way to go…

      1. As someone who’s fallen off the sobriety train more times than I’d like to think, Kratom has been a Godsend!! Something else no one,anywhere has mentioned, but, if you take Kratom regularly, and, actually take say, some oxycodones, they will have little effect! Why? I’m guessing it’s because Kratom is already flooding your brain with serotonin, thus negating the effects of the Oxys. Kratom has kept me from drug seeking because I’m already getting my fix. Also, you need to mix strains every so often – it keeps your body from tolerancing. Luckily, I have a head shop within walking distance of my home that carries 5 different strains, ALL reasonably priced!

    6. I just got off of subutex with little to no withdrawal, just cold sweats. This stuff is a life saver!

  46. Nice chart! Of course it neglects most of the newer strains, but it gives a good idea of what some of the more popular strains do. But what about:

    Hulu Kapuas
    Yellow & Gold strains

    I realize these are mostly just regions in the kratom-growing landscape, but they must have SOME bearing on the effects or else they wouldn’t serve a purpose. How does a Vietnam differ from a Jongkong, for instance?

    1. I agree, I appreciate all the info, but I cannot find any info on Gold strains.. anyywhere!

    2. I find that if you’re a regular user of kratom taking your dose you’re used to taking of kratom of the Hulu kapuas does the trick

  47. Anybody know a good web site to buy Kratom an buying from a vendor, like what kind of store am I looking for I’m in need of help, I’m a mother to a son 24 has addiction problem but he has been methadone yr an is now coming down mg pretty quickly so he can get off it but he needs help to get thru working everyday an being able to take care of his every day stuff. Please somebody help give me advice or what to get an where?

    1. Look for a local kava bar in your area. They typically sell kratom.

      1. I watched a news story and they went to 4 places like the quickie mart, a head shop, a cigar shop and a kave bar. They sent the 4 kratom batches that they bought to a lab and the only one that didnt test for kratom was the kava bar!

    2. Hi christy, I’ve dealt with several friends coming off heavy opioids and kratom works the best to ease the come down and withdraws. You can find kratom at any local smoke shop, sometimes even at gas stations but the purest form of kratom that I have found and use myself time to time to deal with my bone disease, AS and chronic pain, I order off the site and they offer beginners packs I recommend the beginners pack of all the red vein strains! Email me if you have more questions, I’m happy to help!

    3. Join Kratom (New and Current Users) on Facebook! They have vetted trusted vendors and I can highly reccomend a few. If you would like to friend me I can help you out or you can give me you’re Facebook information and I can have them invite you to the group. I found a great vendor from that page and usually only stuck to his personal page. I also came off methadone 7 years ago, so I understand the struggle.

      1. I would join your site

      2. Please help with wherecto buy. I assume I need red. I want calming not hyped energizer I appreciate all the help I can get. Was on methadone for many years am down to about r mgs a day. Would love to quit. Scared after 30 yrs

        1. I also suffer extreme anxiety due to heAlth issues including heart issues, lung and diabetic. I just wanna feel goid

      3. Hi Tracy can you please add me to the group on Facebook. I am looking at my crate on powders right now I purchased a variety pack I am trying to find another alternative for my pain other than opiates. I currently take OxyContin 40 mg twice a day.i’ve been on the same dose for a couple years and do not want to go out the doors but only get about eight hours of pain relief… Then it seems like I’m in withdrawal for four hours until it’s time to take my next dose. Any help or information you can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance

      4. Can you please tell me where I can purchase Kratom from. I have a lot of pain from osteo arthritis, joints bone on bone, deteriorated disc in neck, fibro, depression from all the pain and anxiety. Taking hydros, muscle relaxers and something for anxiety

      5. I need help im on 105mgs of methadone and im trying to figure out how to come off with Kratom if u can help me my Facebook info is Amanda Barnhill I’m from Leland n.c or u can email me

        1. Hey….same here. Any luck with the kratom? What’s ur story?

    4. I don’t know what state you’re in (the laws differ) but they sell it at a lot of smoke shops here in Sacramento or you could order it online. I rarely comment online but when I saw what you wrote I had to. I’ve been hooked on opiates on and off over a decade and on Suboxone over 2 years now. I was so scared to get off it because I had been through withdrawals before and it’s absolute hell but I decided to just get it over with. I had read about kratom and decided to try it but wasn’t expecting much. After a quick taper I’m on my fifth day without the suboxone and taking kratom and I can’t even believe how great I feel. I wish I knew about it a long time ago. I think a lot of people stay on opiates to avoid withdrawal like I did but we don’t have to. No wonder our pharmaceutical companies- owned government wants to ban it! I can’t recommend it enough it’s seriously a miracle. Good luck to you and your son!

      1. Thank you Lyndsay for sharing! I am scared to death of my pain first, withdrawal second. Being prisoner to the long term use of opiates due to back injury ; I crave my life back. I can only hope this will do the same for me! Thanks again! Thanks a million!!

      2. So true I am on my 4 day detox off suboxone and I ordered kratom to see if it would help with withdraws. It does ! I have mild symptoms that I can deal with . Like body ache headache eyes fuzzy mild stomache craps .. But nothin I expected worse far worse! I Been on subs over 10 years I sick of being anslave to it! Want my life back!

    5. Vaping Dragon in Abilene Texas. So nice and knowledgeable.

    6. Right here with you, it was the only way I could get off suboxone as well. It had horrible side effects mentally for me, the year and a half I took them I was very suicidal. Also the wd’s we’re worse than heroin for me. Kratom has been a blessing to my life, to say the least.

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