Strains And Effects

Many people new to kratom have questions about the effects of different strains. The following table serves as a comparative base for some of the most popular strains of kratom on the market.

Click on any strain below to find more information:

Strain Effects Dosage
Bali Euphoric and the most classic opiate like among the strains of kratom 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Maeng Da Energizing and stimulating with pain killing effects 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Red Vein Thai Similar to Bali with fewer negative side effects 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Red Vein Kali Sedating and more classically opiate like 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Red Indo Similar to Red Kali and many other traditional strains 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Green Indo Balances pain relief and energy boosting qualities 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Green Vein Kali A stimulating strain which also has painkilling attributes 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
White Vein Kali More euphoric or dissociating 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
White Vein Kali More euphoric or dissociating 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
White Vein Indo similar to red indo known for its pain relieving attributes  1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Super Indo Similar to Bali with less euphoria 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Super Green Malaysian Varies between suppliers but is typically more stimulating with little euphoria 1/2 – 3 teaspoons
Ultra Enhanced Indo Most euphoric of the extracts and works well for reducing social anxiety 1 gram or less (if mixed with powdered leaf)
Gold Reserve Extract Powerful extract by applying highly concentrated kratom alkaloids back to natural kratom leaf 1 gram or less (if mixed with powdered leaf)
ISOL-8 Extract ISOL-8 is an outlier and has caffeine like stimulation 1 gram or less (if mixed with powdered leaf)
Natural Enhanced True Thai Made from taking a 90% pure alkaloid extraction of Thai Kratom and reapplied to a Green Vein Thai leaf 0.25mL or more
Natural Enhanced White Sumatra Created by taking a 90% pure alkaloid extraction from white vein kratom and mixing it with White vein leaf 1 gram or less (if mixed with powdered leaf)

all strainst

This Post Has 612 Comments

  1. Hi guys! I’ve learned a lot reading all these comments, but I do have a few questions.

    Does anyone have experience with the store cbd/kratom, how good their product is?
    Has anyone noticed any sexual side effects, good or bad, with any particular strain? I tend to have very low lebido and wondering if any of the strains would hurt or help that.
    Do you guys worry about the liver effects of kratom? Is there anything that can be done to offset that? My husband has, quite literally, 24-7 migraines and uses cbd on decent days, kratom on bad days. However, due to previous alcohol abuse, his liver is already pretty messed up and it scares me what I’ve read about kratom and liver function.

    How much of the red horn is safe to take in a day generally? Like would it be safe to take 5 capsules and then another five twelve hours later?
    Thank you for any insight!

    1. i had side effects from kratom that made my woman happier. win win

  2. Hi all – I am new to the kratom experience, so please excuse my ignorance in asking probably the same damn questions everyone else did. I am detoxing (AGAIN) off a variety of opioids (methadone, dilaudid, vicodin, oxycontin, morphine, etc…3 surgeries in 3 years). Opioids for me not only relieved pain, but reduced my social anxiety, made me bubbly and friendly. IS there a strain that will do the same (reduce pain and reduce anxiety), while also perhaps giving at least a small amount of the “high” effect that some of the opioids create? Also, the only places that sell kratom near me are head shops…not sure if those versions of Kratom are good quality or not. Thanks for the info.

    1. Aaron, from what I’ve read so far Bali Kratom is the most opiate-like strain, particularly the red one. I haven’t tried straight Bali myself as I’m kinda new as well. Most vendors sell this strain so a quick search for Kratom vendors reddit should help you find a good vendor. Prices are a lot cheaper online and the quality of headshop Kratom is questionable. As you experiment more you’ll find the right dose and strains that work for you.

    2. Aaron;
      Like you, I am a pain patient. I was on Dilaudid, Methadone, MS Contin and Valium. I also have ADD and was taking Vyvanse and Adderal. A hella cocktail to be sure. I had the exact same experience as you. I got off methadone a year ago by using Levorphanol. This is a very old opiate that has been re-approved for use. I have used white, green and red. The red is what you’re looking for, the Red Bali. I am off ALL pharmaceuticals now. My ADD is better, my pain ( I have CRPS. It’s said to be the single most painful disease known to man, worse than cancer, amputations and natural childbirth.) is NEARLY UNDECTABLE. If this stuff can kill what I feel, and I was in line for a dilaudid pump to be implanted- it will help you. I also have PTSD, panic anxiety disorder and major depression. I have gone from being an absolute wreck to feeling better than I have in YEARS, all because of Kratom. Should you decide to take it, please put in a call to Congress like I did and tell them that if they take Kratom off the market you will vote them OUT. Leave it to the frigging government to try to make a lead illegal. ((Sighs in disgust)) Try this stuff. Come off the drugs COLD TURKEY, the Kratom will keep you from being sick. Trust me, I know. Oh, I was on Suboxone as well, and I felt nothing. No sweats, running to the bathroom ever five minutes, long nights “kicking the sheets”- basically what we all live in fear of when enslaved by pharmaceutical drugs. One last piece of advice: buy in bulk. I have found kilos for about 70.00-120.00. It’s ruinously expensive to buy a little at a time. A kilo should last you a month to two months depending on how much to take. WAAY cheaper than scrambling for meds and being afraid all the time! Good health is around the corner…Lori Z Mcintosh

      1. oh poor poor you… :s

      2. I’ve had a very similar experience. I also was on MS Continued and Methylphenidate. I suffer from a neurological disorder Neurofibromatosis. I have many tumors in my body and have had 14 surgeries over the last 25 years. With the Red Bali I no longer need and opiate pain meds. Kratom has saved my life. If it’s made illegal I don’t know what I’ll do.

      3. Thanks, Lori. Can you recommend a good website and a good strain to try for this type of relief?

      4. WTF?! While I’m certainly glad Kratom helped you…. COME THE FUCK ON! People like you are the REASON the FDA wants a ban in Kratom! Because of you people “looking for a buz” and I’m very sorry you have a pain disease but DONT EVER say it’s more painful than Cancer… or anything else you HAVENT had! It’s disgusting that those of us who have been unfortunate enough to live in debilitating chronic pain have to even be going through all the BS hoops we are because SOME PEOPLE aren’t taking their pain medicine AS DIRECTED! I’m in debilitating pain every day, and though medicine has NEVER taken my pain away.. it helped keep the edge off enough to function.. I NEVER ABUSED MY MEDS…. but because of people like you we have to think about so much more now than we should. Listen, and this is for the seeker you were giving such great advice to. Kratom is to help people have a quality of life NOT TO FUEL ADDICTS!! People like you are part of the reason we are now FIGHTING to keep Kratom legal!! GO TO REHAB…. get your fucking heads straight first.. then if Kratom is something that helps your pain and anxiety and whatever else your DOCTOR says you have going on and he sees that Kratom is useful then by all means but PLEASE, PLEASE, for the love of God…. DONT post BS like and invite Addicts to take Kratom to GET HIGH….. that’s NOT Kratom purpose in this world… it’s a Godsend for those of us who need it to enjoy life…. not “get high”…. Glad your off all that shit, I would get a second opinion.

        1. You are no one to judge anyone’s pain. Your situation is your Revelyn what is relevant is the pain each person feels in a minute to win and the kids to off of drugs it’s a win-win chill or pay the pharmaceutical company judge not least yee be judged

      5. Thank you so much for your post. I am an opiate addict who has been on 2 mg of suboxone a day for 7 years. Kaiser has been unable to fill my script due to back order issues and even at a low dose, i have had withdrawal symptoms that leave me painfully uncomfortable..especially high blood pressure. My son recommended kratom and it’s like a miracle for me. I am so tired of being a slave to the pharmaceutical companies and being treated like a criminal when I ask for my script to be filled on time. I have no withdrawal symptoms ad my bp is 120/80. However, I’m scared to get off suboxone only because I never want to use opiates again and it’s been a marvelous insurance policy at low doses….but as i said, I’m tired of being beholden to pharmaceutical/insurance companies. Any thoughts? btw, i, too, started out as a pain patient who ended up on the nightmarish road to physical/emotional dependence. Thanks again. Nancy K>

        1. Hi Nancy I’m going thru the exact same thing 2mg for years I’m scared to withdrawal also. Please keep me updated on how the kratom is working for you. I started taking the tables today.

    3. Try the Red Vein Bali

      1. I’m new to the Kratom world. I’ve tried white Maeng Da which made me sleepy. I’m now going to try red Bali. I want pain relief, but also that happy feeling that comes when you do opiates, which I’ve been clean of for 34 months. Can someone give me some advice please. I’ve read alot of different articles and such and it seems each one says different things about the different strains. Help!😐

    4. Green Malay and green maeng da got me off opiates and make me want to go in public big time. Just be sure to use a different strain here abs there to not build tolerance. And drink LOTS of water. Flushes out the Pharm toxins and helps you feel a lot better

    5. Hey! Red Bali would be the strongest to come off of opiates. I use red Bali and maeng da. It gives a euphoric feel plus energy. Keep in mind it can take a week or two for your body to start reacting positively to the kratom, but till then, it’ll relieve your withdrawal issues. It took me about that long but now I get the euphoria everyday without taking opiates anymore! Also, a lot of smoke shops carry it and I don’t even have to order online. I use whole herbs brand. It’s best to switch off different strains every couple of weeks so u don’t get used to a particular strain. Hope this helps!

  3. I use Red bicornuate for pain and it’s fantastic. begin slow because it will cause symptom. All Kratom is high in fiber thus ensure you’re drinking lots of fluids otherwise you can keep a copy. I had back surgery five discs consolidated and that i haven’t had to require opiates since happening Red Horn. i attempted Maeng prosecuting attorney and a number of other others however nothing has touched Red Horn.

    1. I’ve been taking Vicodin for 26 yrs and Fentanyl for 12 yrs I’m having trouble finding the correct strain and amount to take of Kratom , I have tried four different strains nothing seems to help I can’t function without terrible stomach pains and no motivation Haven’t slept a night through in a week!!! Any suggestions? I’m desperate

      1. I don’t know what strains you are taking or how you are preparing it. When I first started taking Kratom, it was to get off opioids (previously on 200 mg Morphine and 5-30mg Roxicodones/day or more) I was put on Methadone to get off the Morphine and Roxi. This was the first time I didn’t go thru that horrible withdrawal. I felt as if I had found a miracle, and still do. I went on a website that told me to use Red Bali and Yellow Indo. It also said to order something called Calm Support. It didn’t help thought. The Kratom is the only thing that has helped me and my husband to be able to get off pain pills. I have also had a spinal fusion. I have fibromyalgia and widespread chronic pain. Kratom has been a God send. The Yellow Indo used to make me sick so I quit taking it. Now I like the greens and whites for energy. They also provide enough pain relief to get me thru the day and night. They say the reds are sedative and green and white energising. I still have never felt this euphoria everybody talks about. But energy and pain relief is good enough for me to keep taking it. I use a small amount of orange juice in a bottle (old single serving orange juice bottle) about one or two inches in the bottom and then add about two teaspoons of Kratom. Right now I am using Super Green Malay and White Borneo (1 t each) When I first started I was using anywhere from 9 to 14 grams twice a day. Even though the stuff taste terrible, it is worth anything not to go thru withdrawal. You may be taking too much or a strain that doesn’t agree with you. Try starting out with a small amount and then as your tolerance builds, increase the amount. It sounds like you are going thru withdrawal. It will make you so sick you want to die. I don’t know if you have ever gone thru it or not, but it is the worst feeling you can experience. It can get to the point you don’t want to live anymore. Like I said before, Kratom has been a God send to me. I don’t know what I would do if the outlawed it. The legislators need to know this is the answer to the opioid addiction crisis this country is suffering from. They don’t want and answer because the doctors and pharmacies are making a fortune getting people hooked. I finally said–NO MORE. I was sick of being a slave to a pill. I wish you all the best. Just know, there are a lot of us out there who have been thru it. Good Luck

        1. Cindy,

          I am right there with you. Methadone is more evil than morphine and roxicodone ever thought about being. I got off a year ago with Levorphanol. It’s an old opiate that was re-approved for use. I’m in the medical field and I also worked in a treatment center. In school we did an autopsy of a murder victim who was found outside Ft Worth. This person had been dead approximately four years. They found methadone still the the patients BONES. Sometimes it can take over a YEAR to stop feeling the effects of methadone withdrawal. I also owe my life to Kratom. Be sure to call congress and tell them if they outlaw Kratom you will make sure the people responsible are voted out of office. I did. Millions are suffering from the DEA making it impossible to get pain relief. Hundreds have thrown in the towel and committed suicide. I’m prepared to break the law and illegally import Kratom if they try taking it away. The more people who call and insist that the DEA eff off on this the better chance we have. I pray all who read this that use this wonder plant band together and fight. I even asked the jerk in Congress if they were attempting population control by forcing the sick and the weak to just die. This IS the solution to the opioid crisis! Also, the National Center for Drug addiction has publicly come out to Congress and the DEA with a study showing that nobody has ever died taking this stuff. Let’s hope the drug companies ( especially the ones making Suboxone- that seems to be readily available) in bed with our lawmakers don’t ruin all of our chances at a healthy alternative to opiates. Best Wishes! Lori Zambrana McIntosh

        2. Cindy, I’m new at this, I’m on my second neck surgery and refuse to use pain management. They make you feel like a criminal! You sound very knowledgeable? Does Kretom have a shelf life?

      2. Hi Dayna, welcome to the world of chronic pain. Along with it comes, sleep disorders, and usually, though I hope you haven’t had to experience it, anxiety disorder. You don’t mention which strains you have tried. I can speak from personal experience due to a Frankenstien dr, and the freak show known as the DEA. I have a hard time getting scripts, but have had like you, Vicodin for a couple of decades off and on, codeine, and oxycodone. Vicodin is the best at pain moderation without serious side effects. The efficacy wears off after years, and you need to use another drug for a few months for the Vicodin to work as it once did. The lowest dose possible without going too low is best. In the past I was moved to oxycodone from Vicodin when it wasn’t working well enough. It is a very difficult drug to dose with. Has some serious motor skill impairment, but excellent pain relief. I just recently had fentanyl and found it useless. An almost immediate headache that did not relent, and only a few points worth of pain relief.

        I have had a number of kratoms. Reds, and what I believe is a white indonesian called super indo. It appears to be effective, but I have not even used a full oz of it yet.

        Red Kali or kalimatran is the best for pain relief, with the least stimulating effects. Though mild usually, the stimulation effect of most kratom combined with regular use, can leave you in a panic trying to get to sleep. Valerian and Passion flower are also beneficial.

        I have a disc that dried up and disappeared in my lumbar along with some nerve impingement. I was getting some fair pain relief without the “why cant I fall asleep” syndrome from kratom’s stimulant effect by using about three teaspoons of red kali, and another two to three teaspoons if breakthrough pain appeared. The dose for you may be different. The correct dose will generally give around five hours of pain relief.

        Valium is an extremely beneficial drug but must be taken carefully. Tolerance and addiction can happen easily. It can help you sleep and stay asleep, significantly reduces anxiety, and has some pain reducing properties.

      3. I’ve recently just started taking Kratom for depression so I can’t be sure about specific strains, however, I am convinced that the quality of the Kratom is quite important. So you need to find a good vendor. Ezkratom, Kratoria, katsbotanicals, and christophersorganicbotanicals are my top picks for you. Stick with the reds like Bali, Sumatra and Borneo. Grab all three if you can and take a different one each night to get a feel for which works best and also will help keep tolerance down. I want to say start with 3 to 5 grams. idk what your opiate tolerance is like so more might be needed. Hope this helps.

      4. Hey dayna im sure there are people with way more experience than me in this area but from my personal experiences withdrawling from herion and suboxone i found the white indo helped i would take about a table spoon everytime the pain was too much it definitely helped unfortunately there is no 100% silver bullet to cure all the opiate side effects but Kratom seemed to be the closest thing to relief there are other options like taking a ton of anti dihreal pills (NOT recommended) they help but will seriously dehydrate you and god only knows what horrible effects they have long term so if you can get a white or red vein ultra premium Indo that is where I would start. I wish you the best and I really hope you can get through it it sounds like you have the worst part behind you if its been a week GOOD LUCK and It is TOTALLY worth the misery for a new start

      5. It will be difficult to releave the opioiot stomach pains, cut back SLOWLY, part of what your experiancing is withdrawl. I moved to Wisconsin after being on pain managment, which the governer “declaired war on opiots” and took me from 8 oxy a day to nodda in 3 months. Scarry, but you can do this. Its hard, Kratom helps and once you start just do it, no matter the sucky part push through. Currently I am takeing Mangda Green, works well for pain.

      6. Hello!

        I know exactly what you are going through. I have been on all that and more. So far, I have tried the white Maeng Da, Red Bali and Green Malay. The Red Bali is GREAT and helped me off Dilaudid, MS Contin, Valium, and meds for ADD. I’m amazed at how much better I am. You don’t have to live in fear anymore. Don’t mix drugs with Kratom. Jump off at a taper, in other words step yourself down with what you have of your meds. When you get as low as you can ( I am in the medical field and know what I am talking about) use the Kratom and you won’t be sick at all. The fentanyl is dangerous to just jump off all of a sudden. I’d have your doc take you down to the lowest dose, then use the Vicodin and step down from there. When you are as low as possible that’s when to start Kratom. If it worked for me, it will work for anyone. Also be sure to call congress and tell them that you will be sure to have anyone responsible for making Kratom illegal voted the hell out. Take care, and know that YOU CAN DO IT!!! Sincerely and with hugs and prayers, Lori Zambrana McIntosh

  4. Thanks for posting this informative and great blog and i really appreciate your work, Finally i know the strains effects and its importance.It helps me to understand about it. Appreciate Your Effort. Incredible points. Solid arguments. Keep up the amazing work.

  5. Well Mary Elizabeth aren’t you lucky, now you should work on being so judgmental and self righteous. Your situation is not everyone else’s situation. You sound rude, arrogant and ignorant in my opinion for someone who claims to so know so much about subject. Pray and meditate for more compassion. Focus on having gratitude you didn’t experience addiction or where able to get past it instead of spouting out your opinions as if they where facts regarding other people’s experience with pain, pain medication and addiction. Yes other people have opinions as well.

    Also the subjects kratom and how it helps different people for different reasons not your opinion on if addiction is real and those who being weak in your opinion. Think you got off track here.

    1. You don’t like this, start your own blog.

  6. I just got switched to a pain medication that does not work by my pain management. They gave me a line of carp about regs, blah, blah, blah.

    I had some Maeng Da Red vein I had gotten last year. So I made up some capsules of about .40 grams each. I took 2, my pain level within an hour was a 6, 2 more got me to a functional 4 pain level. I did 2 more before bed and slept all night. I’m somewhere at the bottom of the dosage scale at about .5 tsp. But it works and I will be buying more soon.

    1. Was the red vein the closest feeling to oxycodone? I have herniated discs in my back and drs refuse to write anymore for relief. I tried some today but got no relief, it was red borneo. Wasn’t impressed at all.

      1. Super Red Maeng Da is awesome for back pain, also the super green Maeng Da

      2. I bought a sample pack and have used the Red Vein Maeng Da and it works well on my herniated disc pain. It tends to wire me. I have yet to try the Green Vein Malay and the White Vein Bali I got. I am trying to figure out if one of them is more sedating cause I need help sleeping.

        1. You may be an opposite because red is the more sedating, white is most energizing and green is in the middle. With kratom, less is more, meaning less is stimulating and more is sedating (as a rule of thumb). All of the MD strains have the highest alkaloid and flavonoid contents out of all strains; they sometimes refer MD as the pimp of kratoms lol.
          Try taking higher dose of your red and if it still keeps you wired then youre probably an opposite, where the whites will be your sedating strains and reds stimulating.

      3. I have found that red Bali is the best for my pain management and its effects are stimulating while energetic. I have to take 4-5 grams to be at a pain free or close to it level and be able to carry on with my day without feeling too sleepy which is very unlike any opiate I have ever been prescribed. I was taking pain meds for over 3 years and decided to go the natural way to find remedies to help me cope with my day to day life as a mom and the recovery was terribly hard. Then I found kratom and I can live life again and be the mom I want to be for my kids. I have tried red mengda, red hulu, gold bali and trainwreck and non of those top 4 grams of red Bali. Wish you all the best of luck!

    2. I take this plant on a daily basis. It helps with pain & my sometimes depression. I am so thankful that I found this product.

  7. I have just recently learned of Kratom, & since I have looked a lot of information up. I was wondering if anyone knows for sure if “Oregon Kratom” is a good, reputable source for online kratom ordering. Thank You Very Much!!!!

    1. They are great!

    2. Hi!
      Sooo.. Oregon Kratom is slightly less potent than some of the other great vendors but the overall feel and effect of their strains is unparalleled. If you’re relatively new to kratom with a [semi]low tollerance please start there!! It’s not always about being crazy potent… Once I got over the fact that I had to take a gram or two more er dose I obliterated my 200 g’s of samples in slightly over a week.. And LOOOOVED 6 of the 7 strains. For me, even with the premium vendors I am about 50/50 on strains that work for me. Hope this helped a bit!

  8. There are different benefits of Kratom such as It is Anti-Depressant, Anti-leukemic, Anti-malarial, Anti-inflammatory etc. I have been using it for past two years and have not experienced any severe side effects, just mild headaches.

  9. Would u say it would be unsafe to take kratom along with an occasional hydrocodone 7.5 ml?

    1. They woulf be pretty much offset each other.

      1. That’s not true I’ve taken a small amount of methadone with Kratom and absolutely no offset
        You have to wean you can’t just go from taking a large amount of opiates and then just rely on kratom

        1. Oh yes you can

          1. Yes you. Im living proof of that

          2. I also am proof that you absolutely CAN just quit and use kratom with zero withdrawal symptoms.. I had been opiate dependent for about 13 years and on suboxone for 7 of those years. I had tried to quit many times but failed before finding the kratom plant!!! I was taking 8 mg a day of suboxone and was able to finally succeed in my quest to stop taking it… KRATOM saved my life and allowed me to find my soul and have a relationship with my father once again.

        2. You’re wrong..I was on Norcos for close to 5 years at a 150 mgs a day..I had a problem I became addicted to them..I quit Norcos cold turkey by starting the worked for me…I had very mild withdrawals at the beginning..but after 2-3 days I was fine..I’ve been clean now for 5 months.

          1. What kind of Kratom did you use? Trying to get an idea of what might be best for my situation. Unfortunately I have chronic pain and I hate taking medicine but it’s caught up with me. Any advice would be helpful! Congratulations btw, I’m sure you feel amazing it’s a big accomplishment!

        3. I was on morphine and hydro’s.. Couldn’t fill my script in another state. My son had some Kratom. NO withdrawals at all!
          So… Yes you can cold turkey and enjoy your vacation!
          This comes from a person who’s been addicted for years… Thanks to Kratom.. Opiate free

        4. I was on morphine and hydro’s.. Couldn’t fill my script in another state. My son had some Kratom. NO withdrawals at all!
          So… Yes you can cold turkey and enjoy your vacation!
          This comes from a person who’s been addicted for years… Thanks to Kratom.. Opiate free

        5. Yes, this was the comment I was looking for. Trying to supplement methadone w kratom, like I wish I could do both, while slowly getting off the M.

          1. It’s been 3 weeks since my last methadone dose. I’ve had great luck with white Bali; that said I had tapered from 90 mg to 24 mg before jumping off. Kratom made it the easiest methadone detox I’ve ever experienced- & I’ve done it about 5 times bc I’m hard headed. You cam do it!

        6. Yes you can for sure !!! It is a life saver

    2. Why? Your brain believes them to be the same exact thing. Stop the addictive pain meds immediately and rely simply on Red Bali

    3. Stupid question because your brain believes them to act exactly the same. Oxy is chemicals while Red Bali are leaves from a tree.

      1. You have no idea what you are talking about. Kratom targets the exact same opioid receptors in the brain as narcotic pain meds. Oxy is NOT chemicals man. Opiates are processed from a plant too man. Ever heard of the poppy plant dude? The opium poppy plant is the plant that ALL narcotic pain meds are made from. Kratom is a different plant but provides the same effects because it acts on the same receptors in the brain so technically the brain does not know the difference. When I take 7 grams of Kratom it makes me feel exactly the same as if I had taken 20 milligrams of Percocet.

        1. What is the best way to take the powder? I am new and just had the terrible experience of just taking a spoonfull…YUK!! And almost choked to death…but the effect is awesome..I am a nurse and do not want Opiates at all!!

          1. Debbie, you might try the toss n wash method. Take a teaspoon full into your mouth (just let it sit on the tongue), then take a swig of coffee (not too hot, but still quite warm), swish it all around in your mouth like mouthwash until all of the kratom is completely wet(it will not dissolve but won’t clump as bad with something semi-hot as opposed to cold), then swallow. You can repeat this if necessary, then swish just the liquid around in your mouth to get all of the remnants. Another method is to take an empty prescription bottle (with lid), put teaspoon of kratom in the cup then some semi-hot coffee, put lid on, shake up well, then take the shot. Kratom still won’t dissolve but won’t clump as bad as it would with cold liquid. I’ve never tried the second method, but I’ve spoken with many who have. Also, take a drink of water prior to either method so your throats won’t be so dry. It helps to hold your breath and focus on something like a looking at a magazine or reading an article. As someone who gags easily at different tastes and textures, especially kratom lol, I promise the more you do either method, the easier it gets. You might also join a kratom group on Facebook (NACU kratom, New and Current Users Kratom is a large one) and ask for other suggestions.

          2. I keep a little bottle of juice to shake it in, like you get at convenience store. Orange juice seems to work best.

          3. You can mix it in applesauce or there are recipes for like smoothies.
            Reddit has a lot of good info.

          4. Go to a health food store and buy the 00 size empty capsules and put the kratom in a bowl to make it easy to manually fill. You can also buy the small machines that the capsules fit in to easily fill. I take 8 of them for my dose a morning. My wife takes 6 to start her day.

          5. I mix it with my hot coffee it completely dissolves and then i add cpl spoonfuls of sugar makes the taste way better then add some cold water and chug it works great

          6. What I do is put desired amount and type in a very small jar with small amount of water and shake it up. Plus it doesn’t get on my teeth as bad:)

          7. My method is super easy: get your dose ready; I use a 1/2 teaspoon measure because any more than that is harder to swallow, and the very rounded shape means it doesn’t spill out like a standard spoon would.
            So, you get your dose ready, take a little sip of whatever liquid you prefer, tip your head back and dump the whole teaspoon in onto the liquid you are holding in your mouth, and then take a nice swig of liquid to wash it all down like you would a pill.
            It took me a few tries to get this right, but now it’s just instinct practically. The powder never touches your tongue or the roof of your mouth or anything, all you taste is the liquid you swallowed. 🙂 I think it works because the little clump of powder floats on top of the first sip of liquid, so it gets washed away effortlessly.

        2. Dr. Feelgood,
          you are incorrect. Oxycodone, Oxycontin, Hydrocodone, Dilaudid, etc… are all synthetic versions of opium, either stronger or weaker. Synthetic meaning, they are not natural but created in a lab. Poppy plants are not used in the making of these painkillers.

          1. Partially correct, andy. The painkillers you mentioned are semi-synthetic but they also include an ingredient that comes from the poppy plant & is an opiod. So they contain opiates as the basis for the synthetic manipulation that gives the opiate a stronger effect while using less of the opiate componant. So still an opiate. You’ll commonly see the words semi-synthetic in marketing materials.

          2. Sorry, but that is not true. Semi-synthetic indicates that they are created by using specific ingredients derived from the poppy plant and then chemically altered, usually quite simply to achieve a new drug. Poppies contain more than just morphine to include thebaine, and other psychoactive substances. Fentanyl and its analogue are totally man made and infinitely more dangerous.

        3. Opiates have been made chemically for years… Dude. Morphine and heroin… Laudinam too were made from poppy’s. The white opium poppy is illegal in the u. S. And all opiate pain meds are a chemical copy… Dude

        4. What kratom are you using?

  10. I get so much relief from Kratom. several strains..Now I find out the FEDS are looking to ban it completely! What BS, sure it helps people,keeps it’s users out of the doctor must be stopped. Yes, I’m more than a little upset. It’s been approved because of users writing about how great it is, but I’ve heard now that the FEDS are on it, it will be taken away, within a year. Has anyone else heard that? I’m in Cincinnati, OH and that’s what I hear at the smoke shop I go to, and it sucks.

    1. Angela, I’m with you on that. I just discovered kratom in feb of this year. It has helped my Fibromyalgia symptoms better than any medication doctors have given me over the past 7 years. If the FDA really cared about our safety and wellbeing, they would run tests to prove or disprove the claims. Not simply say the claims are false and work to ban it. It just doesn’t fit their agenda. That’s sad.

      1. Actually the Feds issued a letter of intent back in 2016 to make Kratom a schedule 1 substance but due to an overwhelming response from the public they withdrew the letter of intent last year. They are now in the process of laboratory testing Kratom to determine if it is dangerous or not. As far as I know it’s going to take a couple of years for them to draw their conclusions. If they were fixated on banning it they would have done so by now so don’t worry about it right now and go burn a few grams 🙂 Cheers!!

    2. Yes. Illegal now in 4 States

  11. My husband has back pain and has been on oxycodone for a while and would like to get off of it. What strain would be good for pain relief?

    1. Red strains will be what you are looking for

      1. Only if your also looking for a more sedative feel. Green or white maeng de is the best for a switch from opiates and pain.

    2. Red Sumatra 650 mg from Garner’s. Works wonders for me, but I need to take like 2-3 of them. Everyone is different though.

    3. Hi Donna 🙂 For me anyway Green Maeng Da feels almost exactly like I’ve taken Percocet. When I first started taking Kratom a couple of months ago 5 grams felt like 20mg of Percocet. Now it takes about 7 grams but I have been taking it almost every day since I started. Find a local smoke shop and try purchasing a small amount to try. The local shop near me charges $20 for a 1oz bag of capsules that are 1\2 gram each. 10 caps would be 5 grams and that would likely be a good first dose to try. Dosage amount varies from person to person so you’ll have to experiment to find his sweet spot dose.

      1. Opiates have been made chemically for years… Dude. Morphine and heroin… Laudinam too were made from poppy’s. The white opium poppy is illegal in the u. S. And all opiate pain meds are a chemical copy… Dude

    4. Red Bali is what I use and I take 8g per dose I mix in the bottom of a coffee cup with a little HOT water and make a paste so it doesn’t sit on the juice..then pour in about 3 oz of grapefruit juice I read mixing with grapefruit juice is the best catalyst for pain relief ..I was on norcos for years and quit taking and using Kratom with better results than the norco also absolutely no withdrawal from the opiates ..I order the powder from top extracts

    5. Buy your Kratom online.. Happy Hippo is great.. But from smoke shops it’s often old and much weaker than good online sources.

    6. Andy, you took the words out of my mouth. That is why say I am allergic to Tylenol 3 but can take Vicodin. One is synthetic and the other is derived from the poppy. Years ago before the synthetics all opiates were derived from Opium/Poppies but nowadays most are cooked up in a lab.

  12. Which strain is better for weight loss and pain?

  13. Hoping someone can guide me a little bit. Quick scope of my general problems: fatigue, lack of motivation, neck and back pain, short attention span, small bouts of depression, insomnia, low appetite, low sex drive.

    I’m afraid to try kratom for a couple reasons. One being what I’ve heard about a “hangover” effect after using. I don’t want to feel like shit on days I don’t take it. Additionally, I don’t want to NEED to take it every day just to avoid that, as I build a tolerance to things quickly, and have an addictive personality. Also as I mentioned, my appetite is rather low, and I’m worried taking an energetic kratom strain will make me not eat at all.

    However, I need some help, some relief. I’ve done a lot over the past 8 years to help my symptoms and I’ve made a lot of progress, but there are just some things that are tricky. It also doesn’t help that my current insurance doesn’t cover mental health costs if I so chose to return to therapy or medication. Nor does it cover physical therapy which was going to be my plan to help my neck and back.

    I guess what I’m asking is, how risky is it to take kratom and what strain would be best for my issues?

    1. Energetic really is not energenetic. It’s just a little picker upper. Remember to start small doses.

      1. what site is good to order from

    2. Green Maeng DA is the strain I like best. I find it the most similar feeling to traditional pain meds. It helps with my back pain tremendously. I have to take it on an empty stomach for best results but once it kicks in I have no problem with appetite an hour or so later. At first, eating something did make me a little nauseous but I quickly got used to it but now I can scarf a pizza once it kicks in. Pepto tablets helped immensely in the beginning if I took a little to much and started feeling a little queezy. As far as addiction goes I am a recovering addict and I have had no problems with craving it when I don’t need it whatsoever. I was actually surprised at this because it does feel great when I take it but for some reason I just don’t feel compelled to take it more than I need to. It also seems to have antidepressant properties as well. I have found that my overall mood has elevated even when I am not taking it that day. Kratom really has changed my life for the better. I can’t say enough good things about it..

  14. I am a recovering ov heroine addict what strain what kratam specialist recommend I use to simulate the effects of opiates. I say that bc I know myself and if it doesn’t feel like opiates I will relapse And I really don’t want to. Do I guess what strain feels the most like opiates until I can get my life under control.

    1. Try red Bali my freind I was on Suboxone along with many other things and all I use now is kratom red Bali really helpd alot

      1. Oh my goodness!! I’m trying to get OFF of the evil suboxone!! This is GREAT to hear!! So Red Bali. What about Ultra Enhanced Indo and Red Vein Thai??

      1. Not necessarily. I have tried the reds and the greens and so far the Green Maeng DA is my favourite and feels the most like Percocet IMO. Many places will sell a sampler kit for you to try different kinds. I have talked to many people who tried different strains and opinions definitely vary. Red strains will be more sedating if you like the nods but for the overall euphoric effect that is most similar to heroin or Suboxone I saw grab some Green Maeng DA and scarf about 5-7 grams…

    2. Get either red vein or red horn.
      Those are what work for me.
      Best wishes on recovery!!

  15. What’s the best type Kratomis best for coming of methadone

      1. witch site is best to order from

  16. Hi there, thank you for the great information. I did
    have a question though I think you might be able to help me with.

    I was wondering, What are less known alternative treatments for breast cancer (aside from the standard treatment procedures)?
    If you could provide a little insight I would greatly appreciate it!

  17. hi. settling in for subutex withdrawals after long 1 and a half year opiate addiction from doing everything i could get my hands on just to keep from getting sick.(opiate addiction started from lower back injury from work and started using to be able to function at my job better(requires heavy percise lifting everyday)) been struggling to sober up now for 6 months and becomming desperate. i refuse to look for more opiates im done. have had nothing for 36 hours now and had a long night last night not being able to sleep and kicking hard even after taking 8-500mg capsules of red vein maeng da blend. could not sleep all night but was not in pain like normal. any suggestions? was jittery all night and felt enormous amounts of energy in chest while trying to sleep. should i try a different strand? i have always had anxiety and trouble sleeping and while withdrawing i have always too much energy and am unable to sleep.any strains/dosages that are able to combat the inability to fall asleep/calm down/stop the hot flashes and heavy kicking when ready to go to bed?

    1. I’m so sorry to hear this!! I’m about to be in the boat right next to you. I’m preparing for Suboxone detox. I’m almost positive I’ll get Red Bali…my research shows that is THE BEST for our situations. However, I am also curious about Red Vein Thai and Ultra Enhanced Indo.

      Waiting for answers with you my friend.

      Oh wait, lol, just saw date you posted! What did you try?

      1. Partially correct, andy. The painkillers you mentioned are semi-synthetic but they also include an ingredient that comes from the poppy plant & is an opiod. So they contain opiates as the basis for the synthetic manipulation that gives the opiate a stronger effect while using less of the opiate componant. So still an opiate. You’ll commonly see the words semi-synthetic in marketing materials.

  18. Ive been taking pain meds for about 10 yrs now,and like most others….became slowly addicted.Trying to get off,been weaning down slowly for many months now.i recently purchased Red vein maeng da….White vein bali….Red vein bali……then saw something about this blend called “Bright Eyes blend”……what is my best option…..OR….mixture of these???? And….what dosage….??

    1. Personally i would go for a red bali. Its all up to prefrance though, i would try each typle for one day and track your pain level. Some strains work better for certain poeple than others.

    2. I would go with the red vein Bali. It’s the most opiate like and is extremely effective for pain relief. 2 grams is the recommended starting dose. I had to start with 3 for it to work. It works very well for me but everyone body chemistry is different.

    3. I’m in the same boat, been on the pain meds for 20 years!…I have tried the green maeng da strain and the energy levels are awesome, also it helps cut the pain way down…and that is without having any pain meds for the days I take the Kratom…I’m planning to try some of the other strains based on the info I have gotten from this site…good luck to you, hope it makes a difference in your life too!

    4. All the strains will help you and according to the above info I would say Bali would be best for that. I personally used Red Vein to ease myself off of opiates to GREAT effect. I swear the world should wake up and use this stuff to treat addiction. My suffering was reduced by 10x. Best of luck buddy. zunich

    5. I just stopped 2mg of suboxone two weeks ago. The wd was horrible but as soon as i started taking red maeng da everything changed. It helped me sleep. Stopped my restless leg. And gave me energy for the day. I highly recomend! Good Luck Ray! You can do this! Remember, you owe it to yourself!

    6. I can’t answer your question exactly because I had to go somewhere to detox for a few days but now I’m getting through my pain with maeng da powder that I make into capsules and keep with me. I only take one or two a day at separate times when needed. It’s not OxyContin but it gets me by and I don’t have to depend on narcotics. I just didn’t have the willpower to come off completely at home and didn’t want my family to see me that sick. However I was taking a couple hundred 30 mg instant release a month. One every 3 hours so my withdrawals were out of this world. I wanted to die but I didn’t wean down at all. Good luck.

    7. I recommend joining a few Facebook groups If you haven’t already. Different strains have different effects on everyone but for opiate wds and pain management, reds are the better choice especially red Bali since it does have a bit of a calming effect and we know how our minds are during wds… *going crazy” I’d stick to reds until you’re through the wd stage and jump to green and red blends. Yellow Maeng da is also good for relaxing with a slight energizing feeling if you take it in small doses. Best of luck. Join kratom for dummies on Facebook. New hope botanicals have the best kratom I’ve ever tried and I’ve used around 15 different vendors. I only have to take half of my dose from them bc it is so strong. Hoping you’re doing well!

    8. I’ve been taking kratom for 4 or more years now and I, like you was taking pain meds for back and joint pain. I have done a mix of just about all types at some time or another but I have found Red Maeng Da the best for pain. And now I don’t go to Dr. anymore to get my script re-upped.

    9. I live in Boston, I have that mass ave. monkey on my back,i just read the entire replys here, after i saw kratom in a Dot Ave headshop,in Andrew Square, but my question is what is and where to go is the best for a detox all easy ,can any one tell me the address and what type to get, i dont want to get turned off if i do it wrong

    10. … it is so important to continue to NEVER give up seeking more biologically gentle relief or cure to what ails us, that I’d like to share that my experience of an effective adjunct to my ongoing samplings for determining the best strains and dosing with Kratom for my relief from intense, persistent or fleeting ailments or conditions, has been supplementation with good- quality high-dose, liposomal vitamin-C. With alternating between the Kratom and the liposomal ‘-C, I enjoy the therapeutic benefits provided by both and I also get a break, in my case, from concern with the dreaded “buzz” effect.

  19. I have a few questions on this stuff. I am totally new to it…can you take anti-depressants while on it such as Cymbalta and Wellbutrin? Also, looking for advise on what to get. I have serious degenerative disk disease in upper back and neck. Thus far having 2 neck fusions and could get more but find it just is a downhill spiral…get one fixed and then it puts pressure on the others and then those need fussed. I also, have Chronic Fatigue syndrome and Fibromyalgia I was diagnosed with even prior to that car accident over 25yrs ago. So to make a long story short I deal with almost daily migraines along with all over body pain which in turn makes it hard to sleep which in turn makes my Fatigue Syndrome even worse. Any suggestions on strands etc. would be great. I was thinking something for morning to help me through the exhaustion and pain during the day and something at night to help with pain and sleep. Also, does anyone know of a supplier that has sample packs for you to try for a day or 2 to make sure it is a good fit before buying for several days. Thank you!

    1. Hello V,
      I’m new too I’ve tried 3 vendors thus far but over 20 strains. Here is my recommendation for you. Try Happy Hippo Herbals ( sample pack. It contains a fast strain, medium strain, and a slow strain. Also they always send a sample. You can request which strain you would like as a sample just email them. Here is my personal recommendation for you: pain- red dragon Bali. Insomnia-yellow Sumantra. Energy-white indonesian. Hope I have been helpful. Thanks. -B

      1. Thank you for your input on the INSOMNIA one. I needed that information for myself, the pain relive one for my significant other. Have a blessed Season. 👏

    2. Oh yeah as far as medication goes… I take abilify ,Prozac , a Statin for high cholesterol, and Xanax. You should be fine with the medications you are taking. I hear that antidepressants somewhat blocks the effects of Kratom. That’s the only problem. I personally am weaning myself off abilify and then Prozac next because I find Kratom to be much more beneficial than the meds ( this is why they are trying to ban it and demonize it because as soon as everyone finds out about this wonderful plant bye bye big pharm… cya psychiatrists) but anyways you have to find the right dose of Kratom for you as well as the right strain. Personally I find the yellow strains to be the most calming/anxiety releiving. I find whites to be best for energy and focus. Reds best for eurphoria and pain. And greens are the most balanced… and actually my least favorite. It took me about 3 weeeks to find my dose and strain. The most common side effects are constipation and nausea. You can counter the constipation by taking Metamucil or milk if magnesium at night and counter the nausea by taking raw ginger or ginger capsules the same time you take your Kratom dose. Good luck to you!

      1. I wouldn’t put it that way, one of the reasons the FDA has Kratom in it’s crosshairs is because many dietary supplement vendors are claiming that kratom cures many illnesses, conditions, diseases and disorders with zero evidence to make those claims and with only a few stories of someone who claims it worked for them.
        Not everyone is like me, i have logged my experience with kratom from dosage, effects, time stamps, every chemical i ingest goes into the log including all medications and containing alkaloids/buffers/active ingredients within.

        I have Graves Disease, anxiety, panic attacks, neurological pain. and Nothing has worked, I’m allergic to most SSRI’s, MAOI’s, mood stablizers and so on. I’m currently addicted to Suboxone and am trying to step off of it slowly until i can take my Kratom Red Vein Bali to curb the WD’s.

        Kratom happens to work for me, but i can not guarantee it will work for all others with similar problems. i hear and believe it works for opioid addiction and am about to give it a try. The point i’m trying to make here is, me saying it works for anxiety is not evidence it works for anxiety in case many do not realize this which seems to be the case.
        I could have taken several medications, Chemicals inside of vitamins, food and other factors that could be contributing to my success. unless the person lists a full markup of every medication, chemical ingested, dosage, strain, time stamps, dose of medication addicted to. you have no proof and should not boast it as such.

        I’t seems for most people Kratom may work for several conditions to treat them effectively depending on severity of illness, duration of illness, medications you currently take, dosage of Kratom and strain of kratom taken. everyone is different.

      2. Well I agree it is a wonderful plant, but beware everyday use like you would with all antidepressants would cause extreme physical addiction over time. Don’t use daily or physical withdrawals will be tough.

        1. I have been using Kratom for about 3 years. 3 to 4 times a day. There have been many times that I have not used it and had no withdrawal symptoms. From forgetting to pack it when I went on a weekend road trip, to getting up on the weekend and just plain forgetting to take it.

      3. I respectfully must disagree with this and I am very much a kratom fan. I am also in total agreement the proposal of Kratom Bans relate to FDA. And money. However I am also an advocate, in psychiatric treatment have a Masters in Neuroscience, I am starting law school in the fall at the experienced age of 51 with the sole purpose of working against the pervasive societal bias for those with psychiatric illness. The science has rocketed past society in only 10 to 15 years. People with multiple sclerosis (another illness of the brain) do not stop treatment for illness in order to take Kratom, nor to people with strokes, seizures, or brain damage, These are all brain illnesses without the stigma of psychiatric illness. What they do is use it to help them function with related or break through symptoms. Those with psychiatric illness need to stop feeding into their own illness. Al illness which puts you on zyprexa is likely science based and someone will eventually have symptoms which kratom can’t address. I have scerlederma sclerosis and bipolar illness. I take kratom for pain, focus, energy, relaxation, slight mood lift, it won’t treat real diseases,,,,these are real diseases, I hope I’m still around when people with psychiatric illness start advocating for their rights in the courageous way Parkinson’s disease patients and Huntington disease patients did, they were hero’s. Stand up against bias

      4. Also for nausea you take your right thumb and place it 3 inches from the wrist between the tendons until the nausea subsides. Usually doesn’t take long, a minute or two. Acupressure technique. Another good one, to keep from gagging, place your right thumb in the center of your left hand and press! Immediate relief!

      5. just read your comment and realize this is months later, but I wanted to share my educated opinion. being that you understand big pharma is a racket and will go to any lengths to suppress holistic approaches/remedies, (pls dont take my word for it, read it for yourself), but statins constitutes one of the biggest scams out there!! and theyre dangerous….the whole high cholesterol scare is a huge misnomer, and many cardiologists are discovering the true cause of heart disease…if you do decide to stay on the drug, you might want to supplement with OoQ 10 as statins diminish its production…maybe you knew all this prior to my post, but Im just reaching out to a fellowman in hopes you can find optimal well being namaste

    3. Any of the Red Vein are great for pain. White and green work good as well. I used to be on pain meds for pain also and was completely addicted to them. They ruined my life and actually made my pain worse. I had to go thru the awful withdrawal of stopping them and forced myself to stay away from drugs. I did this before knowing about Kratom. It took time to overcome but I did it. And I started working out, eating better and kept myself as busy as I was able. The very best workout is swimming in the pool. There is no gravity in water so it is very easy on your body, even treading water for 20 minutes is enough to help. Then I stopped drinking so many sodas and researched foods that actually make your pain worse and I stopped eating those foods. The way you eat is of up most importance especially when you have problems with pain. I have Rheumatoid arthritis, osteoarthritis, and back problems. I used to lay on the floor crying in pain from my back and my toes hurt so bad I could barely walk. Once I got off the pain meds, started eating good foods for my body and swimming in the pool at a gym, the pain started going away. It took time but it has been over 2 years now and i feel so amazing compared to how I was. Pain meds only make the pain worse, it doesn’t help and coming off of them is pure hell! Since I found Kratom it really helps to manage pain when I have pain. It also puts me in a great mood and I have not noticed any horrible side effects. I have to say it is definitely the best go to instead of the horrible pharmaceutical junk the docs give you. Also I found that pork and shrimp were the very worst of all foods for my RA as every time I are them I would swell up and be in so much pain. Getting those two foods out of my diet really made a difference. Since then I have found many more foods that are horrible for you in general as well as if you have pain issues. Research as much as you can and make up your mind completely that you are sick of the negatives in your life and you can overcome taking junk medicine and overcome the pain you have. Most of all of our pains do truly come from the food we eat and lack of moving our bodies enough. Take the time to research and don’t push yourself to hard all at once. It is going to take time but I tell you truly it is worth it. I live mostly pain free now compared to laying on a floor crying and feeling hopeless.

    4. When I started on kratom I was on cymbalta…been on antidepressants for twenty years…since being on kratom I’ve been about to stop antidepressants completely with no withdrawal side effects…

    5. I too have had multple spinal fusions and i have tried every strain available in my area. Ive found what works best for me are green strains green malay, green thai, and my favorite green vietnam. Red strains are too relaxing and make me very tired. White and yellow strains are to much energy and make me jittery. But green strains seems to be set perfectly center between them all. I usually take 3-5 grams at a time. For the past 2 years this has been my main source of pain relief and the upside compared to prescription painkillers is so high that as long as its available this will be my only choice for relief. I hope this helps you. Feel free to message back with any questions

      1. Hydrocodone is too weak for me. Only office oxycodone 10 mg or helped. I tried red borneo and got no relief. 2 herniated discs in my back. Your advice is green strain for similar oxy effects?? Thanks

        1. My two cents worth: Green Maeng DA. I’ve tried several others and I swear to the good Lord above that 7 grams makes me feel like I had a 5mg shot of morphine!! I was skeptical when my best friend told me about it but when I finally tried it I was positive I was going to fail a drug test if my Job asked me to take one..

    6. YES! i take welbutrin and prozac and can attest that i have taken both small doses 2-3 grams daily over time, as well as large doses 4-9 grams for single use pain relief. I have not seen any negitive side effects. I have taken green white and red meang da, as well as red borneo. keep in mind that although this is not an actual opioid it activates opioid receptors. you have a slightly higher risk for seizures while taking such a drug however it isnt any riskier than say having a margarita or taking real opiates like hydracodone for pain. Anyone taking a drug that puts them at a higher risk for seizures or seritonin syndrome should take it slow at first with kratom, i took 3 grams of green maeng da my first try, then gram by gram day by day found my limits and ideal dosages. The only real serious incidents recorded so far have been due to idiots taking Huge doses, people mixing it with other recreational drugs/alcohol or people who have an allergy to it.

      I will highly recommend that you buy from a reputable source (not some gas station) and make sure that it is both sourced indigenously (from real local farmers) and is 100 percent pure labeled. this will ensure that it is potent, safer, and “fair trade” meaning that it is made and sold by the local peoples who are experienced for what they deem a fair amount or money. all these things are important for keeping kratom both available and legal.

    7. Wellbutrin is an inhibitor. You can’t take as much with it…unless you want that potent affect. It basically makes it last longer and stronger.

  20. I have chronic pain due to fibromyalgia. I am so tired of going from dr to dr. I have had MRI’s, X-rays, multiple spine and neck injections. Had MD’s tell me it’s all in my head. I belong to a fibromyalgia forum that recommended kratom, but I really don’t know anything about it, but at this point I am so depressed from the pain, gained 20 lbs from the last migraine medication (migraines daily) now they want to do botox shots. I have to work because my husband is on disability. I work over 50 hours a week in the health care industry. Love my job, but don’t know how much longer I can do it. I am tired of being looked at like a drug seeker from the pain clinics who do not understand Fibro. I tried smoking pot, but I hate the smell and the taste and all it did was make me dizzy and throw up. No pain relief. Please if anyone can help me to know which strain to use for pain I would be indebted to you. I cry nightly and can’t stand it any more. Suicide is not an option, but damn there are days where if the good Lord took me I would be ok with that.

    1. It makes me very sad that no one has responded to you, I myself do not have fibro or chronic pain of any kind. I have not even tried multiple strains. I myself am I recreational user. (every other day when I’m on a streak of sing it) I have only tried the Green Indonesian strain from Moon Botanicals. As such I cannot confidently recommend any one strain but I can give the advice of just trying them out and seeing what works for you. Around $30 got me 100 grams. (much more than I ended up using) It seems that Ultra Enhanced Maeng Da is great for the painkilling. As I said I’m still very much a novice but I still wished to help you as more recent entries received replies and yours did not. You may even get better information from others in this thread. I hope you find something to help with the pain. I wish you the best.

    2. Holly, I have fibro-type pain also (dx fibro but I’ve begun to think I actually have CFS). Nothing works as well as opiates,but I’ve used kratom successfully for withdrawal and pain management. I read so many different sites recommending this or that strain and dose,and couldn’t keep them all straight, so I finally just ordered several different types. My understanding is that people will react differently so YMMV, but I have found the (red vein) Borneo strain and Super Indo to be the best for pain. Borneo helps me sleep; until you’ve experimented w/it I wouldn’t recommend taking it when you have to work. It’s the only strain that has ever made me feel ‘dopey'(but only mildly; nothing like marijuana,which I also hate). Red Vein Thai helps with pain and energy but I can’t seem to find a dose that gives consistent results. Maeng Da has been the best all-around strain for me; it does a decent job of managing pain, mood and energy levels. I would recommend starting with 1/2 tsp of powder or 1 tsp of crushed leaves and see how it affects you (I have to take more than that). Sometimes it begins to work within 10-15minutes; sometimes it takes an hour. It can make you nauseated. I have chronic nausea so I have an rx for ondansetron (Zofran),which is an awesome anti-nausea medication but insanely expensive; if my insurance didn’t cover it I’d just have to go without. So I can’t speak much to the nausea side effect b/c while I have had some nausea when taking kratom, I also have it when I don’t take it. Again,your experience may be radically different from mine, but hopefully this will at least give you a starting point. I have so far tried only one vendor, Kraken Kratom. I suspect it’s probably good to find a vendor you like & stick with them so you don’t risk inconsistencies in the kratom you get. I want to try a two or three other vendors – nothing wrong w/Kraken, they’re fast and reliable; just so I have a comparison .
      One more note, especially if you need something for nausea and are able to get Zofran — be very careful combining medications…I’ve had doctors prescribe dangerous combinations several times & have had to advocate for myself (once had a dr rx fentanyl and hydrocodone while I was already taking xanax, Zoloft and Zofran w/the occasional Flexeril; all of those together are good only if you’re hoping to die of serotonin syndrome).
      Sorry for going on for so long and hope this is helpful to you &/or others. Pain sucks and the newer CDC opioid guidelines are IDIOTIC.

    3. I totally understand your mental and physical pain. I’ve had several surgeries that has left me worse off. The pain gets so unbearable at times and I work 80 hours a week. I found krantom and it’s been a life saver! I use Bali and green Ma Da. I no longer need to use opiates for my pain. Also, you will not suffer withdrawal symptoms. Krantom starts working instantly!

    4. I’m so sorry for all your pain.. I have Lyme, but thankfully was finally diagnosed correctly after 4 yrs. Kratom has done wonders for me. I’m a self employed artist and could barely get out of bed to make art or participate in an art show. I still don’t work as much as I’d like to, but I finally do see the light at the end of the tunnel. Hang in there, 💚💚💚 kate

    5. Holly,

      If you haven’t decided yet, I’d recommend white bali kratom. You can also find a sampler pack. You may want to try red bali, borneo, and maeng da as well. Just realize that dosage can vary based on the strain, or even between different purchases of the same strain. Start by taking a very small dose and see how it affects you. Some strains are more stimulating, some more sedating. They all have at least some painkilling effects, so don’t worry too much about that. Any kind is better than nothing. The white bali I recommend is somewhat stimulating for me, and great for pain.

      Also, if you weren’t aware, addiction is a possibility with kratom, but it sounds like you’re at such a point with your pain that you need to try something. Make sure it’s not illegal where you live, if that’s important to you (some states have banned it, and a federal ban may be coming).

      I’m sorry that you have to go through this. Don’t lose hope. I hope that kratom will be just the help that you need. I will be praying for you tonight.

    6. Hi Holly, I have fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, & degenerative disk disease. Was on oxycodone, for pain, & adderal, for chronic fatigue, for 10 years & recently weened myself off because of the hassle of having a pain management & mental health providers. Before I did, however, I bought some Maeng Da & white vein Bali. I could not believe how well it worked. I take 1 Tbs. of Maeng Da every morning, for pain relief & for energy & motivation, & 1/2 tbs. white vein Bali at night, for pain & to help me sleep. Kratom is a God send!

    7. I also recommend purchasing online. I tried purchasing at a smoke shop & it was not good product. Also, you can probably stop opioid immediately upon starting Kratom but DO NOT use them together.

    8. Wow i totally understand. The feeling. In my life every few months new pains pop up. Now my whole body hurt. Its not all in our heads. Its a true nagging never let u off the hook pain. A few weeks ago. As a mover for. Moving company hada forty pound bedpost. Fall on my shin. While i was sitting on break from 8 feet high. Hurt like the devil. iflated my leg , but even this painpaled in comparisonto the everyyday. Arthritic pains assosiated with rhematoid arthritis. Ive found Maeng Da. Kratom. Super helpful. Along with an excedrin a day. Before. I started the kratom. Was taking 5 a day excedrins. With two aspirins. And a 10 mg percoset on occasion maybe 2 if things gor real bad. Now kratom seems to be doing well. Would like to try DL phenillanine as well. If things get worse……….for now kratom a lifesaver

    9. Hi! I was just curious on how you take your Kratom. I have about a kilogram of Green MengDa and have taken one tea spoon with a shot of warm water and a teaspoon of honey. My question is does anyone know how to protentiate Kratom? Is it better mixed with Citric acid like OJ? Thanks again

    10. I feel your pain(sadly pun intended) but there is hope. Kratom has worked wonders for me, after being on opiates and anti depressants and suboxone and Valium , you name it. Bali or Maeng Da kratom once a day for me and I feel relief. I get mine from Velvet Soul Naturals. Getting the right dose down may take time but I take teaspoon at a time and wait for effects and redose if necessary but only after a couple hours. Keep your chin up, there’s always a way to make things better.

    11. Hi Holly, I am so sorry to hear you have fibro too, I am using kraton for pain, sleep and opiate withdrawals. I just started using kraton a few weeks ago but this is what I have learned from a website called”kratom science”.
      Green vein maeug da for daytime 1 1/2 tsp every 4-6 hrs.put in sm shaker cup with juice.
      White vein sumatra or Bali for sleep.
      That website will help with most questions.

    12. Holly,
      I was just scrolling reading comments, and yours caught my eye. My mother has fibro as well, and I’m wondering if she passed it on to me. It’s not in your head! People doubt what they don’t understand. I’m going to try Kratom hoping it will help with my pain. I really hope you found something to help you, as well! You sound like a strong, hard-working woman. You’ve got this! Always remember God has your back!

    13. Like you, I myself suffer from chronic pain. Had physical therapy 3 times, multiple surgeries and unfortunately the only medication that helps my level of pain is strong narcotics. With a medical background I know how doctors do not want to prescribe narcotics nowadays. Pains even so bad that I’m in the er multiple times s month. I started taking Maeng Da strain. I have been nothing but pleased with it. My mood has been lifted, my pain is not bothering me. It’s wonderful.

    14. Mrs. Holly I would like to encourage you to look into Fibromyalgia Centers of America. There may be someone in your area. I am a doctor with them and I have been getting good results with my patients with fibro. Hope this is helpful. Let me know if I can be of any assistance

    15. Hey Holly. I am pretty new at Kratom myself, but heres how I started and its working pretty well ( i am using it to wean myself off heroin ). For pain relief, stick with a red strand. Start by either mixing 1-2 grams with liquid or putting it in empty capsules ( you can buy them at health food or vitamin shops ). If mixing it with liquid, give it up to an hour and see how you feel. At that point you can take another 1-2 grams if needed or not. This is how Kratom works- its an opioid agonist. That means it fills the same receptors in your brain that are occupied by opiates. It also contains a minor alkaloid thought to be stronger than morphine. The best part is you cant overdose. If you take too much, the worst thats going to happen is you will throw up. Thats it. Hope it helps!

    16. I wish you the best and if you find any vitamins that help. Let me know. Going to start taking pure apple cider vinegar and tumerac vitamins. Good Luck. People DON’T understand!!! From Pennsylvania

    17. Hello holly, I can empathize with how you feel. I don’t have fibro or not diagnosed. I work in medicine and I know how doctors are about fibro, pain problems, depression etc. I too suffer from chronic pain, fatigue, depression. I’ve been taking pain medicine for years. There are certain antidepressants that do actually help with pain and fibro. Have you ever tried Elavil?? I’m on it now and i noticed without it that I’m in a great deal of pain. It actually helps with nerve pain. Other medications that may help are lyrica or neurontin. Hope that helps. As far as the doctors go…. If they don’t believe you then go find a more sympathetic compassionate doctor that’ll work with you.

    18. I understand pain such as yours. I to suffer with pain Holly that is relentless and have tried many different Doctors and medications, I have spent around $150,000.00 in US dollars on medication in the last five years due to an injury that has been disabling . First of all the truth is we place to much faith in the medical system and think that doctors know more then they do and can somehow repair our bodies. Please don’t misunderstand the difference in Healthcare and Medicine, Healthcare in better termed Disease Management and the Emergency Room services as Medicine. I believe we have the best Emergency Room services in the world but are still using 100 year old systems for Healthcare. We the injured need to take responsibility for our own healing and own it, that said and understood we start the new journey. I was treated with ketamine in a Hospital and had a wonderful side effect , a disassociation with my injury/pain. I was able to look at my injury/pain without emotional/Psychological attachment and with a logical mind. And this is where my healing began.

      If a person has exhausted their approach with Western Medicine or has lost their understandable faith in the system, then your are now at the beginning not the end. I had to put aside my Cognitive dissonance and begin searching for logical treatments. I was raised in a conservative, religious, American family with traditions and culture however, these became obstacles that needed to be circumvented. I am still all of these things , I am simply a Free Thinker and live outside the box at my own will. If one cannot deal with these issues they are held by an invisible force of defeat.

      I have now tried unconventional means that are increasing my health each day, I call this ” My New Normal” I am not the perjured self, I have arrived at a new starting point of midlife. I now am creating a new self without the cares of insignificance. There are many approaches you may occupy, think outside the damn box! Don’t listen to others that seem to not understand find those on similar journeys and take note. Not everything is a fit but many may aid you’re healing. Start with the personal things that are within your control: Diet changes, regular exercise, good sleep, personal time, prayer/meditation, vacation (this helped me get my start) and others. This is my biggest struggle because it takes discipline and habit formation but is very necessary for change. Then come the influences of life: Friends, family, church, media, leaders, bosses, beliefs, education,music… remove all negativity from your life or as much as you can control. Again this takes discipline and are in your control. Removing some of these may seem painful at the time but will bring healing in the future. (remember to replace them as needed with positive ones) Then come the “OUTSIDE THE BOX” If you are on this type of site you are already searching and have started. look up , Dr John Beggman Youtube, reed : Dr Sarno “The Divided Mind” and Dr. James H. Austin “ Zen and the Brain” Dr. James H. Austin book “Zen and the Brain” Dr.Bernie Siegel is wonderful in his approach. This will help get you started.


      Dr. Jonathan Kuttner “Overcoming Chronic Pain”
      Also check out his channel on “Mayfascial Release”
      His videos contain a lot of helpful information.
      Video of his journey with pain

      Dr. John Sarno book “ The divided Mind- The Epidemic of Mindbody Disorders”
      Interview, the first of five videos

      Dr. Bernie Siegel book “ Inspiring True Stories of Healing, Gratitude and Love”
      This was very insightful and explains the power of will

      Dr. John Bergman “ How to Take Charge of Your Mind”
      Also check out his channel, he has much more and juicing and diet information

      I have so much more outside of these however, my response is pretty long as is I hope you welcome my ideas and they help.

      1. Hi there! What a positive message you gave! 😊 Can you please email me? [email protected] I have chronic pain that has severely worsened my depression & anxiety, and I have a question for you. Thanks and hope you are well.

    19. Hi Holly
      I have tried botox inject. And it seems to help some areas but not all. I got radio frequency injections for my headaches from disc fusion and it was a life saver but again it didn’t help other areas. I’ve had epidural inject in my neck for arm and hand pain and numbness and it helped. But I still have muscle pain so I have found white maeng da in the morning does great. I’m not a fan of green strain (shaky). I didn’t find anything in red Bali, so I can’t really say much on the red strain. I’m trying yellow at the moment so we will see. Good luck to you and I hope you find the right one for you.

    20. I have fibromyalgia too and have just started exploring kratom. I can totally identify with being as drug seeking by doctors. It’s so frustrating. I wanted to ask how Iran been working for you. I realize you’re post was in November and were now in April but I’d love to hear your feedback.

    21. Holly, I have fibromyalgia as well and I tried Bali kratom. It worked for my pain, didn’t get rid of it completely, but it was much improved.

    22. I am taking red Bali for chronic pain. arthritis, pinched nerves, spine nerve pain. I am not wanting a sedative effect. Is there a red for pain that is more potent than the Bali, or is that the best red for debilitating pain?

    23. Have you been tested for Lyme disease? Your story sounds similar to mine and after about 10 yrs. Finally a diagnosis.

    24. Im with ya…did you happen to find any relief from kratom? If so where did you order from and which type did you get? I’m also just researching and hoping this may be a good resource.

  21. Hi all. Chronic pain patient for almost 12 yrs, same med hydrocodone/apap 10mg x 6 per day. I’ve tried most of the other pain meds and they were either too strong or the side effects were overwhelming. I don’t get 24 hrs of pain relief and I’m so over the pain and living my life around Dr’s appointments and refills. My pain will never get better only worse with use of my joints. I want off the opioids. But yet I don’t want to deal with the pain either. Catch 22 there. I came across kratom. I have a few questions.

    What strain will allow me to just stop the norco without miserable withdrawal symptoms? And how much and how often?

    What strain will help with joint pain, chronic dislocations, bone on bone contact?

    I’m in the Detroit area, is there a place I can go in and purchase? Or is it just online only?
    Thank you for any advice you can give me.

    1. Go to the roadshow on Gratiot Ave. near 12 mile Road. Its in Roseville. They have excellent Kratom. Any of the strains should do but recommend Red Vein for pain and sedation. Green is also great but less of a sedative. Good Luck!

    2. I had 2 back surgeries, have a falling disk. Was facing another surgery. Was on Vicodin for years then OxyContin was added as well as high dose fentanyl. And Valium and ambien and Valium and cymbalta. Still had bad pain. Only very sleepy and mood altered. Had an emergent family situation where I may have to get custody of kids. Stopped everything within 2 months. Clonidine helps with withdrawal. I did this at home. Yes I had pain and anxiety for a while. Got a horse…. dealt with life issues. After being off all that a couple months pain radically decreased. Never rode before but found at Barn… riding, mucking stalls ect. I had no pain. Tolerated more pain. I get pain after a mile or two walking…. sit down for a while. After 6-7 months found Kratom. Take Bali red … 6 caps maybe twice a day…. sometimes go days without needing it. A friend once told me narcotics increase pain pathways. She was right. I had more pain on narcotics than after a couple months being off. Only on smallest dose of temazepam for chronic insomnia. Advil and Kratom. I’m sooooo happy to live not worrying every day about when to get pills, going to dr and pharmacy! Get involved in something like activism, horses. Something that demands your full attention. If you take too much u will get nauseous. Would not recommend using it with narcotics. Deaths have occurred with people using both. If I could do this right after becoming a widow, I really believe anyone can. Good luck 👍

    3. I’ve noticed that taking small doses of any strain subsides the hydrocodobe withdrawal. Was taking 10mg, 10 pills a day. Tramadol and kratom made the withdrawal vanish

    4. The best store for kratom in the Detroit area is Smoker’s Alley on Gratiot near Martin in Roseville. Huge selection and good prices for a head shop. Take a look at their photos when you google them.

    5. Hi I am new to Kratom. I was on 60-80 mg/day of either Norco and Percocet for the past 10 years. I was so over being tied to the pills and tried Kratom last week. I LOVE IT! No Pain, No anxiety, No RLS. I literally replaced the pills with Kratom and have had NO withdrawl symptoms. I couldn’t believe it. I use Red Maeng Da and Green Maeng Da. You definitely do not get a euphoric feeling from it so don’t do it for that. Do it for the pain relief and feeling of normalcy. I hope this helps people.

    6. Hi I came across your questions on this website and wanted to give u some advice. I’ve been taking Kratom for 2 1/2 years now and there’s not enough space for me to praise it enough. I was heavily addicted to subuxone for 2 years, and before that 5 years of opiate addiction. This was all recreational not for pain management. Kratom saved my life. It won’t take away the withdrawal completely, but it does help to make it manageable. I use white or green maeng da daily. The withdrawal from opiate pills isn’t as bad as people think. For me the first week was hell but after that it was very easy to manage. Subuxone was a different demon altogether. 6 weeks of pure hell, and it was a full year till I felt completely normal again. Take my advice and don’t let anyone convince u to use subuxone to kick a pill habit. There are charts online that tell which strain of Kratom is best to help your symptoms. Hope this helps and feel free to email me with any questions or thoughts.
      [email protected]

    7. Red Bali! Changed my life! Will take away 99%of side effects and great for depression

  22. I just learned about kratom I have chronic back had 2 surgeries and my lower spine is now metal and fused plus I have had had 3 hernia surgery in my stomach and need to lose weight any suggestions also can some one overdose on it

    1. People generally start with the Maeng Da strain since it’s supposedly the “pimp grade”. It’s where I started and I liked it enough but since have found that I preferred some of the other strains. As far overdosing on it, I’ve done that as a rookie. Thinking I would get really high, I took like 20 grams at once (I weigh like 100 lbs). Instead, I got light-headed, nauseous, jittery and unsteady. I could barely walk. I considered calling an ambulance but waited it out instead — it wore off within a couple of hours. Lesson learned.

      1. Same thing happened to me. It was very scary

    2. No u cannot overdose on it worst case scenario u commit . I’ve bn taking kratom fr over 7 yrs find a strain an adjust urself accordingly
      Best wishes0

  23. Kenneth,

    Can you recommend what I will need for Suboxone withdrawal? I’m tapering now and currently at 1mg. I need to taper sort of quickly due to limited supply of Suboxone and I know what I’m getting ready to deal with. I’ve heard about Kratom from several sources and plan to try it in hopes it helps with the w/d.

    PS I am not nor do I expect any advice from you to be a be a substitute for medical advice. I understand this is just your own personal knowledge.

    Thank you so much

    1. My wife uses the Meang Da after 5 years on Suboxone. We tried all of the available strains but the Meang Da stops the opiate “Jones” and provides the energy and clear mind needed to raise a family. Try them all till you find what’s best for you. The “k-shot” liquid extract was the first she tried and with in a week she was cured of the opiate disease.

      1. Red Bali!

      2. Another great strain to try is Red Bali. It’s uplifting, pain relieving, and feels most opiate like. Many people I know used Red Bali to get off opiates. I weaned myself off suboxone over a month or so. Found Kratom a month later and it definitely curbs my desire to use. Been opiate free for just over a year! Good Luck

        1. I am taking red Bali for chronic pain. arthritis, pinched nerves, spine nerve pain. I am not wanting a sedative effect. Is there a red for pain that is more potent than the Bali, or is that the best red for debilitating pain?

      3. I agree with John. I just stopped suboxone two weeks ago. The Red Maeng Da has been a lifesaver. Energy thru the day and it stopped the restless leg insomnia dead in its tracks. Also has great pain killing effect. Good Luck! Get your mind right and know its gonna be worth it!

    2. I am a recovering Heroin addict and have been on Methadone for over 8 years 120 mil.daily I’m 54 years old so I have really been through some hellish detoxes fast forward went through the detox suboxone took a while not going to lie, but Kratom made the detox so much easier to handle Kratom will “very much” HELP but it’s “assistance” not a cure you will still have to go through your detox and if you plan on staying “Clean” there are some other things you will have to add. Good luck and just do it get clean whatever it takes right, Peace DeadHead Dan

    3. john,
      I have 3 bulging disks and it hurts to no end. typical hydrocodone was the primary treatment. I heard of this magical plant and it is all that! not only is it effective in killing pain, it makes me happy. it works, for me at least. Its amazing the effectiveness.
      I Use Ultra White Meang Da. they only had crushed leaf when I purchased but I ran it through a coffee grinder and made ultra fine power out of it. Believe it or not, I take it will Coffee Sugar/Hazelnut and I actually REALLY like the after taste.
      Give it a shot, if it doesn’t work for you, then so be it… but if it DOES, you wont regret it.

    4. I felt no withdrawls w/using kratom(it totally replaced norco). I did end up vomiting and sweating profusely b/c I took too much. Do not start out taking a lot. Start w/a teaspoon wait 20 min. B4 taking more. Rotate strains every few days.

    5. I would put the meds away and go buy some kratom. It work pretty dang well. I have had several abdomenal surgeries and have several bad problems with my back. The red kratom has to much of a sedative type of effect but you know what you need for your situation better than anybody. Most provide relief and you’ll have to try different ones to see what works best for you but the big thing is to stop the pain meds so you will be able to tell what works best for you. I wish you luck and will be praying for you.

    6. I have just recently reduced then withdrawn from subutex, (been on it for previous 10 years). I didn’t use lofexadine, just 2 grams of a red vein kratom and 1 gram of a green vein variety. i was only using that once a day, but depending on the duration of opiate use, and size of dose normally taken, then you may want to tweak that dose to twice a day, possibly with greater dosage.

  24. My eyes seem to have a film, drainage and puffiness. Does this have anything to do with mayla, horned or borneo? I know it affects my vision some. But my eye lids swelling and drainage is what I am wondering about.

    1. Sounds like a fungal infection bro.

    2. Hi Sherrie. I have not received my first order of katrom I have been on 4 mgs of Suboxone/ Bubrenorphine for four years. Though this may be a coincidence not related to katrom, I have been dealing with runny and swollen for three months. Do you take subs? DC

    3. It’s allergies. I have it too.

  25. I have been on pain meds for years because of crohn’s disease. I have just heard of kratom. What would be the best to try for relaxing and to help with pain?

  26. I have been a chronic pain suffer for going on 10 years. The doctor that I’ve had forever recently left my practice. Before she left and let her know my concerns about the current regimen of meds that I’m on and my worry that a new doctor would change everything setting me back. She assured me that my chart was noted and then everything would remain the same that my new doctor would only want the best for me. Fast forward a couple of weeks I called in for my prescription only to have a nurse call me back to set me up with an appointment for pain management. I told her there must be some mistake since I had already been through pain management and physical therapy multiple times with no results even going as far as to cauterizing all the nerves in my lower back. She told me she would call me back and when she did she let me know that the doctor would refill my prescription by half and only to wean me off of it. And after that she would no longer refill my prescriptions. The nurse asked me if I would like to set up an appointment to discuss this and I told her yes before I could even get to the parking lot the nurse called me back to tell me that the doctor didn’t see any point in an appointment at this time. Now mind you I was only taking between 15 to 20 mg of Percocet a day. But it allowed me to function and not be a prisoner to my home. So now because of the stigma that follows opioids around I’m scared I won’t find a doctor to help me. I’ve been researching kratom and would like to try it but when I went to order it I found out that it can’t be sent to Wisconsin. I feel like I’m running out of options and I’m beginning to understand why people turn to street drugs. What a depressing thought

    1. Sarah et al. : This is quite lengthy, for which I apologize. The asterisked paragraph cuts to the chase. The rest is my experience and observations. Hey, I’m old and have no life thanks to massive pain and the inability to use my arms. (Did I mention I was a runner and salsa dancer, and ‘looking substantially younger than her stated age’ until some doctors destroyed me, grrr….)

      I worked for over twenty years evaluating medical care and occasionally doing clinical research, quitting two jobs, while in San Diego, over patients’ lives being threatened due to profit incentives. Ironically, I later tore both rotator cuffs while working out and ended up having the cartilage of both shoulders dissolved, with a ‘chemical burn’ to the underlying nerves and bone, thanks to a corrupt clinic in Salem, OR, and the continuing suppression of established research that the major local anesthetics, lidocaine and marcaine, are massively toxic to cartilage and other tissue.

      I recently moved back to Pgh, PA (forty years after going to grad school there), where some of the research on this was done, only to have an experience very similar to your own, after going through a four week, horrible withdrawal ‘cold turkey’, on my own with no support at 71. My condition is described by researchers as ‘devastating’, and the only remedy is limited motion and opioids, per the most respected orthopedists treating it, and it’s still impossible to get pain relief.

      The financial reasons behind this, in part: Lilly and Purdue’s 1.8 billion investment in an, as yet, non-approved opioid competitor, Kolodny’s ties to Phoenix House, a chain of truly greedy addiction rehab centers, and the extra cost of monitoring and treating pain patients to both insurances and medical groups, but those in control have decided to wipe us out and use an exaggerated epidemic as a smoke screen. The US as early Nazi Germany, when no one would face the reality.

      I was ready to move back to Oregon, to a town I hated, just to resume opioid treatment, only to have my former PCP, who I thought was honorable, write that now that I’ve ‘tapered off’ opioids, he would not restart them.

      ***What you need to know: My previous opioid use was 6.5 years, with a minimum of 60 oxycodone/day to keep the pain at bay. I had been at an additional 40 mg of Opana ER but had weaned to 20. I really only needed one for sleep and breakthrough pain occasionally. After the WD was over I lay curled in a ball on my loveseat for four days–with a .38, waiting for an express delivery of Kratom. It was all I could do to keep from pulling the trigger, as the pain was unbearable, and I have a high tolerance. (The surgeon who did my operations–and played a large part in causing the damage said, wow, you must be some mind over body person. And, I was, but I’ve been bested by this.) Anyway, I kept telling myself to hold on, there was a chance the Kratom could work, although I had little confidence–a reason I had delayed ordering it until utterly desperate. It worked. (I used Red Vein Bali.)***

      Now, I live in terror of further bans–I wanted to return to San Diego, but that’s out at present. I absolutely will terminate myself if Kratom becomes unavailable, but not without first making serious waves. I worked teamed with doc’s (‘hospitalists’) for years and what goes on behind closed doors for medical decisionmakers is as immoral and ruthless as the worst fictionalized portrayals. The truly knowledgeable and dedicated practitioners–like Forrest Tennant–still exist, but their numbers are too small to carry sufficient weight. (Again, think of the rise of Nazis. People like to use the word as a simple pejorative, but in this case, the analogy is spot on.)

      Be careful when you start.The second week I ended up in an ER with my very first case of hives, and one serious enough to almost warrant hospitalization. It was a histamine reaction (my first) to the combination of the Kratom and a frozen dinner with pesto, spinach and tomatoes. I learned more and opted out of the dinners, which I loved, sigh, but continued the same Kratom, purchasing some from another vendor, as well, in the event symptoms returned. They didn’t.

      In other respects…my cognition, per observers, including myself, is better on Kratom, the level of constipation from opioids is gone–from needing 8 stool softeners/day plus my high fiber diet to occasionally using one pericolace, the manner in which the pain returns is more gradual and less intense than on opioids, although the pain is perhaps not as thoroughly obliterated. I’ve never felt high on either opioids or Kratom, and I suspect further research will reveal pain signal blockage has an inhibitory effect on the euphoric response. If they would study that, perhaps there could be a selective process allowing use by those in pain while restricting those at risk of addiction. But, controlling addiction and saving lives is not the goal of the CDC or the DEA, money for their masters is. Oh, out of an MBA, I worked as a federal labor investigator.

      Pain patients really need to organize into a useful force, before we’re eliminated. We need to transcend our limitations and use numbers to have an impact and stop trying to court the favor of groups devoid of compassion and driven only by money and making concessions to public opinion only when it might affect profit.

      P.S. Investigating the golden cows of the anti-opioid marketing demonstrated an almost total lack of evidence for the claims, including side effects I had thought were well-established when working in pain management. MDs, for the most part, just parrot what they’ve been told without ever checking its validity.

      1. I’m so sorry about your pain about trying to get opiates but when you mention about an animal doctor hoping to write your pain and even ready to move back to a town you hate it just to get your medication sounded like me just a few weeks ago when I had a doctor for over 14 years after the last two years that she was my daughter before she moved away 14 years ago I called her last week to ask if she would write a note to say that I never abused opiates and she wouldn’t do that after I talk so highly about her… She crushed me when she said she couldn’t like such a no I thought this has to do with child protective services you have to try to help me with this they have me down as some drug addict person on the street.. And so ugly and so disgusting that they put on documents there is so much more to the story but basically like you said make a long story short… I’ve already been on Suboxone for 7 years and I don’t want to be relying on that but the only reason I ever got on opiates it’s because it helped my stomach issue which is like diverticulitis IBS… And that was it it was so innocent and that was in 2001 little did I know it would grow a dependency for real when I had trouble paying for doctors cuz most Suboxone doctors did not take my insurance I had to wait to get into groups that would take my insurance… So how can I overcome those weeks without which Robin I couldn’t I felt sick and I needed to be at moms at 5 to 6 kids… I was a late start on being addicted dependent on drugs as I like to say it.. and the horrible way I have been treated from people I didn’t ask for this so-called disease… These doctors somewhat know what they’re doing and they’re keeping people in jobs now that a so-called drug counselors they have to keep these jobs going just as child protective services now have bounties on picking on low income families to take old families and make new ones out of the ones they want to keep the keep chosen the healthiest children and then toss the rest off to the Wayside of these things are really true and people are not believe in our society has become so obsessed… I don’t know what this is caused by eye trauma syndrome if I see his wife I like to punch her in the face because when I see that it makes me sick… To see this woman wear high heel silhouette shoes and a most horrific tragic event that happens she gives to wear such Fancy Shoes then changes into snake is… How ignorant can a person be what happened to her sensitivity did she lose it or did you even ever have one or just too stuck on herself and I see their son he does look something’s wrong with him he looks like a loner and I kid that’s going to have a tough time dealing with people because he’s not around enough people that actually bother with them like they said you can be around people and still be alone that theory holds true… Many actors and actresses have that same problem.. That’s why I many celebrities take drugs to get them potty started and them because they cannot take all the extra excitement naturally… Unfortunately they get addicted and then they died from something that they once loved which was there acting a Korea and next thing you know it got ruined because it got too popular Too Much Too Fast Too Soon and they also get older and no longer have the energy to do it.. There’s so many reasons why people get into drugs and alcohol and abused it it doesn’t matter anyways.. Somehow we have to learn to do it ourselves with what information we get over the internet and other people’s ways that worked for them and try them out because I’m sick of going to psychiatry’s that don’t work I still try them but with a little luck.. I think more than realize I know just as much as they do and they get a little bothered that I’m not as dumb as they think I look at because when they tell me something I’m like try to be quiet and listen but then I’m like a lot of been there done that doesn’t work but thank you for trying anyways and eventually shortly there afterwards… With the faults of flying hope again at that I was going to get some sort of help.. The last time I was back in August 2013 just to get myself with six children and try to get myself to get food and groceries until I can get my license back… Unfortunately someone at Catholic Charities that had been with me for two years decided that I needed State called on me because I was going to be evicted little did she know I had money in the bank to cover me in a hotel I just told her right now I couldn’t find housing and I could really use some help as I am it since we’ve had a lot of refugees coming to our land a lot of low-income houses have been taken up so there’s less low-income houses plenty of Condominiums but who the hell can afford them… I don’t know if that made her get offensive or not but next thing I know I have child protective services knocking at my door fast Florida 3 years later… I read a thing about child protective services called The Business of child protective services..
        I read an article by the late Senator Nancy Schaefer sadly this lady was murdered I believe because she knew a lot about CPS that they didn’t want her to know… Google her name and you’ll find out more about her YouTube her videos and you’ll see that she had a sweetness with 5 kids and 13 grandchildren. I would have never made her family think that this was ever to be anything about a murder murder not murder suicide… Anyhow I found out more more why they need bounties for kids and good kids so they can keep guardian litem judges and court-appointed lawyers and so-called council is Excedrin and jobs and this is what I’m fighting now and I hope that people get on my blog and my Facebook and see what more I write about them but unfortunately I hope I don’t get the truth
        All this build-up because I started out back in my teen years with stomach problems that had to do with some of used and then some anxiety that had it in my way really bad in my twenties I got myself that I would that doctor who I gave a lot of credit to who now I’m so disappointed can’t even write a good letter about me back in the days when I didn’t take no meds for so many years I was a late start and using opiates and I only used two different kinds hydrocodone and a cough medicine.. It was so innocently done but when I go to store and that’s when I recognize the meaning of withdrawals… And then the problems begin from there and I had to start rehabs finally by November of 2011… I recognize more what opiates will all about and then bye 2015 16 I recognize What Child Protective Services were more about even though I was already having Whispers in my ear telling me be careful of them they would need children to keep themselves and jobs but I already knew that in my head I already had said it to other people myself only to be online one day and we need it by Saturday and I was so excited then I found out that she had gotten murdered and that would have been the late Senator Nancy who told the truth about the new forms of ways to make money in the government how sad breaking up families so what is America all about now anyways breaking up families low-income people are not to survive basically screw you if you have poor dot-dot or who I see right around with vehicles and taking up all the new low income housing in South America he didn’t come here with all this stuff ready for him he came the right way I’m sorry but we still do in the USA… We can’t even take care of our own veterans so how long do we push for other people to be in our country when we can’t even have our own back friends who saved supposedly our country from being enslaved by another country and us being owned by somebody else and yet we can’t take care of all that doesn’t make sense to me.. That’s like people making fun of me for having so many kids and say don’t breed them if you can’t feed them well America does the same thing they take in people from other countries yet they can’t even feed the ones that are you don’t know how to run your country your own self… On top of that you don’t even know how to take care of people with opiate use said you just watch him die on the streets and have stories to ride on the Nightly News to say how bad it’s looking when there’s so many things that could help people they just can’t afford it it’s not cuz they don’t want it it’s cuz they can’t afford it trust me people bake for the white stuff on the streets when they want to get off of drugs they just sometimes finally give up they don’t want to help people that have this problem they feel like they’ve already beyond help I see it and shelters I see it all the time they snubbed them off… Shelters are the worst of the worst they snubbed people off and make them look like they’re the worst case scenario like everybody there is a murderer I am at not everyone there looks like they’re on top of that game but let’s face it it’s not like American government is really helping those who are poor why because they don’t know nothing about engineering or how to build things so they’re not worthy of being taken care of that’s basically I have people think it’s only a ELITE that seems to survive these days…..
        I just wonder if this will ever stop I almost feel sorry about children into this world when I was a kid growing up I really thought there was going to be more Awkward for them and I see is a past and I see more ignorance and specially since I saw what it’s like to be homeless more than once and I took me 20 years before I was ever homeless as being all that I never was homeless until my late for thirties I couldn’t believe how badly there is help out there.. You really have to kiss somebody’s ass to get help and even then you might still get screwed over if you mess with the wrong people or if you have sick people run in the system.. And trust me there’s plenty of sick people that that so-called help for poverty-stricken people.. They know they’re desperate so they’ll use that against them and for themselves… I can write stories about that but why bother those people will never know how they got in his position makes me sick.. I would want to help people but I also wouldn’t want to promise stuff if I couldn’t deliver and I really wouldn’t want to make people be a slave to me because I thought we had abolished that over a few hundred years ago let’s face it I don’t think it’s ever been eyeballing that people are slaves to other people let’s face it not all of us can be millionaires or close to it otherwise who would of the so-called Elite and who would work at McDonald’s or Walmart… Nobody???? So what do they do keep you in need of the government’s help and drag that out no wonder people are sneaky and do sneaky things who blames them if it’s a way of survival… The government does the same thing as so doesn’t government officials and people that work for the government they know they do sneaky things all the time to keep themselves in a job that’s all it is a job a job a job to have money so they’re not out in the street being a bum themselves dot-dot so they can talk like they have a dictionary and a head where they’re little pinstripe suits and be tapping into a computer or a cell phone looking important and making sure they have everything updated such as cars homes status and even their golf clubs for Christ sakes.. But some of them are real but not that many that I meet they still have that phony like a car salesman pitch to them and it makes me sick sometimes to try to talk to him cuz they still talk down to people that I’m not in there groups.. Who’d want to be I best one better Grandma before I could ever speak to one of them again I guess.. I guess I got to get rid of my Swedish American accent…

        1. If you all are serious about activism, you need to understand more of why you have the Right to put any substance in your body you wish. No one owns your body except you. That’s fundamentally not challenged at the supreme court level in the sense that we are effectively owned by the people who are supposed to represent us. Here is a great website to get your mind clear on the socio-psychological impacts and reasons humanity continually stays on a downward spiral towards complete slavery: Mark Passio Please check him out. Especially if you are fighting addiction. The non-religious words that are spoken will give you the strength, courage, and Will to overcome anything.

        2. hey fell upon your letter great what you stated. keep up the good work

        3. Jesus, this is a forum on Kratum & you wrote a novel that has little relavance if any to the subject. Big Parma & Dr’s bad…end of story. Now let’s get back on track.

      2. If you are still in Pittsburgh, I’d love to chat. I’m a Crohns patient, with a battle cry, lol.

        1. I’m also in/near Pittsburgh. I have Crohns Disease also. Diagnosed at 16 but had at 11. So far 2 surgeries. Pain Med’s given lead to physical dependence, go on from there. I was on Methadone for about 10 years. Then suboxone for about a year, going from Methadone to suboxone was awful for me. As I said in another reply I weaned myself off (zubsolve) in about a month with virtually no discomfort or w/d.

          Kratom has curbed desire to use and I’ve been opiate free for over a year. You must be careful using kratom with Crohns. Everyone needs to drink extra water. Take 500-1000mg of magnesium daily too. I got severely constipated to the point I had to go to ER. I had impacted fecal matter. I couldn’t poop at all even with home remedies, stool softeners, laxatives. Laxatives made pain worse. I felt like I was having a baby out of the wrong hole, lol. What I had to go though to get all that cleaned out was time consuming and somewhat embarrassing. I have yet to find a Gastroenterologist I like. I didn’t grow up in this area. Perhaps we can chat⁉️Take Care

          1. I there another Pgh, Pa person as well.. Just North about 20 mins from town..

            I have had 5 brain operations and 4 shoulder operations. Will have another brain operations coming up in November from a brain malformation.. Would love to talk with you guys as well.. New to Kratom started Red Vein Bali. And also got Red Vein Thai.. I never sleep do to pain and insomnia.. Hoping this helps..

          2. Hi, I have had Crohn’s for 28 yrs, 3 resection surgeries & stage 3 Breast Cancer( now a 2 yr survivor). All this by the age of 43. We have relocated and starting all over with new Gastroenterologist and a partial obstruction found, but no refills on pain meds (which has been the same 10+ yrs of pain management from old Drs) So trying Kratom maeng da. Any updates on your experience? Thanks! Maryann

          3. Magnesium Citrate is the most bioavailable for constipation. I use Metamucil & a touch of Milk of Magnesia (magnesium hydroxide, best of all) for constipation meds. Just tried Kratum green Mae dong…so, so & then Sumatra green (excellant euphoria). Need to get off HydrocodoNE & it seems like Borneo red vein is recommended…will try that next. I hope it doesn’t make me sleepy. Anybody out there use Borneo or Bali red vein instead of opiates?

      3. Listen to Coast to Coast AM this Sunday night. Experts from our side of the fence going to talk about the “epidemic.”. Meanwhile, there is a new chronic pain group dedicated to rolling back the guidelines. Check the Alliance for the Treatment of Intractable Pain on FB.

      4. Wow!! That was realllly long and lacked any valid info – maybe it was the run-on sentences or lack of finishing One thought at a time. I went back to your ***paragraph and still found little accurate info. I have had CP for 18 years now following a violent attack in my own home by a stranger.
        I can understand A shady doctor, but All your docs, even in other states sounds like it may be on your end. If you have MRI’s/Xrays/Scar tissue from previous injuries, Those records will speak for themselves and not really get someone removed entirely off any meds (BTW, Fibro is Not even recognized in most countries other than the U.S.; Fibro does Not show anything on an MRI that could Cause pain in Every joint with zero arthritis or damage showing Clearly on the reports – which are read by Techs and not the doctors.
        This could be very misleading to ppl actually suffering from a tangible injury (herniated discs, calcium growing and pushing on nerves etc. ALL of which Do show up on scans) in over 18 years, I have come up on Specialists who were more stringent and would not Start a person on high levels (SIXTY Oxy/Day PLUS just for the breakthru pain from Serious Time Release meds?? Wow. That is a huge dose for things which are apparently not showing up with ANY doctors for you. TBH, I know I could not sit and type out an essay on how much Pain I am *Always* in, with Zero Relief even with more pills than patients on Hospice-End-of-Life would get.
        Glad you didn’t need to use the .38 @_# but as someone with the motor nerve cut but the SENSORY nerve Intact, seems like you may be dealing with more mental issues than physical. Neither “Fibro” now “Chronic Pain Synd can actually be *Found on ANY Scans or tests. Hmmmmmm — only your word against many specialists who have Decades of knowledge and experience.
        I got 37 red flags just from your descriptions of “Dibiltating Pain” but nooo cause or relief.
        Good Luck though, maybe a Chronic Pain Psychologist wouuld be able to help you. And ANY doc who would Px Benzos – and more than one at a time for same day use – WITH very strong opiates – is a Quacktor.

      5. Ms. Coe,
        I wanted to personally thank you. After becoming virtually debilitated by CRPS (especially over the last year) I am sitting down with my FIRST “cup of tea” and find your post here. I despise when someone says “I understand your …” , when they litterally have no idea. That said, after ignoring back issues for almost 20 years, my back finally blew out 2 levels. L4-S1. After my 1st surgery (2014) I was diagnosed with CRPS 2. The pain unrelenting from lower back to toes. After a slip/fall on some ice, I had my 2nd surgery to replace a 66% hardware failure (2015). By this time I had already lost control of my left foot, and you could measure progression by the color changes. By 2016 it had begun to affect my right foot, and the last time I felt my left was just before you posted your story, when a muscle spasm broke 2 toes.
        Until thus time last year I was limited in activities, but “stable” on 180mg oxycodone, 20mg oxycontin, 10mg valium, 1800mg gabepentin, and 1300-1400mg soma … daily. Never a missed dose, never asking for “more” (actually asking about alternative treatments like ketamine infusion to get away from Nacros). But then the DEA struck. I have all the documents that show exactly how and why (they are easily found online). My meds have been cut by roughly 70%, and over the past year, I have gone from being “helpful” around the house, to basically bed-ridden. Even though recently adopted Maryland law specifically exempts people like us from thus “guideline”(* SECTION WILL EXPLAIN LEGALITY OF THIS), my Dr is afraid, and has told me to feel free to find another Dr if I can/want (new Dr to discuss the iT pump next thursday). Ironically, since the “cut”, I have begun losing my left hand, my 20/10 vision has blurred, and NOW my teeth are decaying rapidly (contrary to when on higher doses of opioids…dental neural necropathy from the CRPS). Cutting my meds has actually worsened my condition.
        So, while I do not know YOUR pain personally, I do have a pretty clear understanding, and I am sorry that you have/are suffering so.
        As to the DEA… I had always supported them (until now), had worked with them (on “loan” from the Corps), trained and trained with them in my “younger days”. I NOW LIST THE DEA AS PUBLIC ENEMY #1. They have enacted a proverbial (possible actual) war against 1/3 of the Nation. Of that 1/3 they would suffer 96% to catch 4%.
        And you are 100% correct! Those of us in this war must band together and stop this QUITE illegal act!
        Here comes the *:
        * A “Guideline” in and of itself is a harmless “suggestion”, but when a “Guideline” is forced or used to enact penalties/fines, it is no longer a “Guideline”. It is now ENFORCEMENT. Enforcement BEFORE legislastion is, per the Constitution and The Bill of Rights, is ILLEGAL. Any subsequent Laws AFTER enforcement are therefore Unconstitutional and technically illegal.
        ** Ask: Why did the DEA partner with the CDC and not the FDA?
        Answer: Because the FDA had already started blowing the whistle on the DEA for arbitrary seizures, fines, and sanctions against doctors, pharmacies, and manufacturers. (SOME of it rightfully placed, but not enough for the $100’s of millions garnered).
        *** Ask: What is the true STRATEGIC reason for our deployment in Afghanistan and Pakistan? Terrorists or poppy fields?
        Answer(s): Last I checked we keep stomping the snot out of terrorists….in Northern Africa, but in Afghanistan and Pakistan our troops continually seize poppy plantations…where us the evidence that the heroin is DESTROYED and thereby stopped from getting here? The Government has already stated that the Opioid Epidemic is due to illegal heroin and fentanyl, so why attack the disabled? Because of all the economy it brings to law enforcement, from the beat cops to the courts, and all the way up that food chain.

        Ms. Coe,
        I am with you. In pain, in search of relief, and in pushing back. This is the 2nd time the DEA has acted so egregiously since their inception (the tail end of Vietnam). The 1st time severely damaged us as a Nation, and now here we are again. I say : Recall all troops except the 7th Fleet (because North Korea is a more eminent threat), shut the DEA down PERMANENTLY (all other agencies are capable of stemming the flow of illegal narcotics at our borders), destroy the root of the problem (lobbyists), impose limits on congressional terms (this gives US more control of what politicians can/will do), and adopt REALISTIC policies that care for the disabled but also properly administer enforcement against thise few corrupt doctors and patients that ARE guilty. They are not helping or strengthening our Country, they are decimating it. You cannot strengthen someone by tying their hands and restraining them in their bed. You mind as well start dragging doctors and patients into the streets and executing them…and of any Country, the ONE I swore to defend is the last I thought would allow this behavior.
        Lastly, “We the People” are DIRECTLY charged by the Constitution to hold the Government accountable and force reform if the Government has broken…and it is so broken that it m8re resembles a pile of broken glass than a functioning Government.

      6. I agree with organizing…I too need pain meds and live in Ohio, and have the ‘stigma’ portrayed across the country….makes me sooo mad. Anyhow, I have serious scar tissue problems in my spine from 7 back surgeries and have rods from my tailbone to my 10th thoracic region. I too worked in med. field as a nurse, and have been in pain management since 1997. I have been on Methadone for over 18yrs and was on the same dosage for about 8yrs. But, since Aug of last year, my doc kept lowering my dosage because of the Heroin abuse. This whole deal is bullshit and will cause people who are suffering in pain to buy off the streets. I am willing to join anyone who wants to fight for the pain sufferers across America. Just email me: [email protected] and let me know you are interested in doing something to fight this stigma.

    2. Hello,
      I have been dealing with chronic pain for 10 years as well. Green Vein Kali (not Bali) relieves my pain! I have not had relief with any prescription pain killers. The only problem is that I cannot find Kali anywhere except
      Currently, the company is only taking Bitcoin. They are supposedly changing credit card companies and should be back to taking credit/debit cards shortly.
      I have tried the new Kratom strain called Vietnam. It does relieve my pain, but it also makes me sleepy.
      I have been told that Maeng DA has stimulating and pain relief properties. I am going to order this today.
      Hope this helps!

      1. Hi Michelle
        I read your comment about the availability of the particular strain of Kratom you are looking for. I just began ordering mine directly from a grower in Indonesia. If you’re interested please reply to this email, and I’ll help you to get in contact with him.

        1. Hello, I seen where you said you have contact to purchase straight from Indonesia. If possible I would like this information. I’m a 32 year old woman with chronic pain due to Systemic Lupus. I have had a up hill battle with opiates due to this pain. I recently started using Kratom to help with my pain and fatigue, but find it quite expensive at around $20 a oz. I would like to find a good quality, and quantity. Thank you.

          1. This is the site I use. Great pricing. Have tried most. I like the White Maeng Da the best. Good luck

        2. yes I would love to know your direct link to Indonesia for the kratom

          1. I would also like to know your direct link to Indonesia for the kratom. I have fibromyalgia and have had chronic pain for years. So many MD’s, tests, drugs and injections with very little relief. My depression is terrible and I still have to work full time as my husband is disabled. I would appreciate any help you have.

        3. Please send me ur information on ur Indonesia connection for Kratom. Thank you !

          1. I too have CHRONIC PAIN, FYBRO, REFLEX SYMPATHETIC DYSTROPHY, NEUROPATHY, and type 2 diabetic I too am sick of my life revolving around appts. And pharmacy pick up days. kratom I’ve read can be a saving grace. I just don’t know what strain is best for chronic pain and anxiety. And would like to know from ppl with experience which is best and can you share and Indonesian sight for better quality of life

        4. I would like your direct contact info for Kratom please. I live in PA have Lupus and multiple other problems. Been on opoids 15 years currently 20mg oxycontin twice a day plus 5mg for break thru. Was on methadone for 2 years I weaned myself off. Had sepsis septic shock infection from cdiff last august 2016 my children were having me discharged into a rehab and I lost my memory. All I knew I was sick at home like a stomach virus. I was unconscience a week. My children are against opioids because they have lost several class mates and friends to heroin. If they knew my doctors have me back on them they probably wouldn’t talk to me. I’d like to get off myself. See if I feel better. I go through pain clinic now the meds are so hard to get. Please send me address and how much you take and what kind. What kind do you use? I’d like one in morning with a little stimulant and one at night without but if they do not work as well to get off opioids then let me know the best one to try. Thank you! Thank you! I’m hoping you can help me change my life.

        5. Please help me withyour contact info thank you and bless you

        6. Been reading all on board. I would be interested in your contact also. I’m new at this and right now there have been several people across the U.S. getting Salmonella from Kratom. I know a lot of imports to U.S. of foods, etc have been tainted, so my fear is becoming ill. Now with the opioid scare, or government involvement, I can’t even get a few Hydrocodone for pulled back muscles, so I’ve suffered for about a month. Better now but stupid!!! I am a caregover to my mom and would never be mentally altered, I rarely drink alcohol. I would love to try this alternative. But if it’s extravagantly expensive I’m screwed. I’d love to get seed to just grow my own. I also have Fibromyalgia and depression issues. But our state hasn’t caught onto Cannibis yet. Bible belt. Ha!! So if your not the Po Po, that’s police I’d like to have the info. It’s not illegal yet so let’s get this going. I’m a 63 year old woman and who cares if opioids are addictive. Thank you so much. Terri

        7. I left note earlier, how is payment made?

        8. Hi. Are you still ordering it ? I need it for pain and fatigue Thanks

        9. Hi John,
          If it’s not too much trouble I would like the info on your grower in Indonesia.
          thank you,

        10. Hello i would like that information please

    3. I have arthritis, osteoporosis, spurs in all my joints, aemia, herniated discs with spurs, anemia & all alleric to iron. I became disabled Feb. 2017.
      I lost my job of 25yrs b/c I was so I’ll. I didn’t have the energy to fight seeing as I was on my death bed.
      The following is the medication I was on together for 11 years.
      *Fentanyl patches 75mg (monthly)
      *roxycodone 150 (monthly)
      *xanix 90 (monthly)
      *Benadryl ( only when I get iron venously every 3 months)
      ×tazanidine (muscle relaxer) 60 monthly)
      *ambian (30) monthly
      *darvacett 500mg a day (60 a month)
      *VB12 injection (x2 a month)
      *Plaquenil x2 a day (60 a month)
      I just turned 51 & came to the conclusion I can’t listen to the doctors any longer, the way I’m being medically treated I’ll be dead in 2 years.
      #Long story short, I went off ALL meds above except vb12 & iron.
      I herd of a few oils & herbs. I’m the type of person that has to try things for at least 4 months before I tell anyone, including my doctors. I would continue seeing Dr’s & getting scrips filled (but not taking them)
      It’s been six months, the follow is what I take now (it’s been 6 months)
      KATROM (you have to find what works for you, I like WHITE BALI & MAENG DA. CDB OIL, You can find this in any “Health Nut” store. Ask for it b/c its behind the counter. Frankincense oil (there are hundreds of oils to use for different elements & all are expensive, however when I think of all the time energy & cost I’ve already used & got no response it’s worth it to me.
      Enclosing, All Doctors & heatthcare workers automatically view us as druggie

    4. Have you guys heard of the break through treatments with ketamine? There are several anesthesiologist opening clinics to give intravenous ketamine for chronic pain and/or depression. It is suppose to be a miracle cure. You mention your in Pittsburgh..I know there is a guy in White Oak that does it. You go for 6 initial treatments within 2 weeks then maintenance treatment. Also, will kratom work if you currently take suboxone?

      1. Have you guys heard of the break through treatments with ketamine? There are several anesthesiologist opening clinics to give intravenous ketamine for chronic pain and/or depression. It is suppose to be a miracle cure. You mention your in Pittsburgh..I know there is a guy in White Oak that does it. You go for 6 initial treatments within 2 weeks then maintenance treatment. Also, will kratom work if you currently take suboxone?

        1. I’ve never heard of ketamine being used to treat chronic pain or depression. All I know is that people who have used ketamine, especially intravenously, go into what’s a called a “K Hole” and your like tripping your ass off and are completely fucked up. Maybe in a super low dose it could help with pain and depression, but I don’t know, seems kinda far fetched to me, but I’m definitely going to look into it now cause I’m very curious.

          1. Ketamine via IV, if done through a doctor, does not put you into a k-hole. It works wonders, and you don’t “act all Tripp’s.” It IS currently being used to treat depression and chronic pain, especially for those who have had opiate abuse disorder. However, it is not an easy program to find, and can lead to some dependency because it does cause some euphoria. Doctors can put you in a k-hole, for anesthetia purposes (during my second and third spinal fusions, we used ketamine and versed (not sure if I spelled that one right), in an attempt to counteract a resurgence of my opiate use disorder…ie addiction issues). After waking from surgery, I was on a continuous IV ketamine drip for over 8 days, and never had “the nods,”euphoric highs, etc. I also didn’t require any opiates during recovery.

            Kratom works great for my daily spinal and arthritic pain, and can ease depression side effects, although I do take it with a norepinephrine selective reuptake inhibitor.

            Just because a drug like ketamine gets abused on the street, doesn’t mean if administered properly and under supervision that it’s a dubious treatment. I highly suggest looking into it as an alternative to poisoning oneself with opiates.

            Oh, and for “credibility” here, I had my 1st of three knee surgeries in 1994. Have torn both rotator cuffs (supraspinatus tendon) in each arm off of the bone, tore my labrum in each shoulder, and have had 7 spinal surgeries, including fusions at two levels. I had been a high dose daily opiate user for over 20 years, and eventually went with a nevro spinal cord stimulator. Between that, kratom, and my nsri, I have reduced my daily pain from a 9/10 on the scale, 24 hours a day, to between an average of 1–2 daily threshold. Don’t believe or stigmatize drugs like ketamine because of its media coverage; humans can, and do, tend to abuse anything. But that doesn’t take away its potential medical value. Look for progressive doctors, willing to listen to you and your concerns, and not simp,y pill pushers. A good doctor will try and tailor a treatment for their patient, not just prescribe the newest pharmaceutical payoff pill being made…..

          2. I’ve heard ketamine can be great for WD from opiates. In low dosages it’s a disassociate drug. So it helps with all the physical discomforts of WD while boosting your mental state. I personally love k-holes.

            Keep CALM and K ON!!!!
            Lol…… Sorry had too

      2. Hi Renee,
        For the most part kratom will not work while taking suboxone. That’s because some of the same receptors are involved. However, if you skip days of taking subs or take 1/4 of a strip or less it can work but you need to take more. I’d recommend getting off suboxone before using kratom or if you are at a low dose due to tapering and experience w/d try some Red Bali. Start with a level measuring teaspoon and take more if needed.

        I suffer from severe depression. I’m on a bunch of different Med’s that I hate taking. Keep switching nothing helps!!! Can you direct me to find more info on using ketamine for depression and Crohns. I believe most of us suffer with depression from having Crohns. I’m desperate. I had ketamine once before surgery; I had broken both bones in my arm. I weighed only 110 but it took 5 separate injections to put me to sleep. The Drs. were baffled. I’d never had ketamine before that so idk why it took so much. Thank You

        1. Hello!
          Are you sure it’s Ketamine? It’s unusual for that drug to be used in a hospital setting. I have been using Ketamine for CRPS. I no longer use it, since using Kratom. Ketamine in a nasal spray can cause some people to actually hallucinate. Usually they try you out on the spray first, and later move to the oral drug. It works for CRPS, and supposedly that’s the most painful disease known to man. However, since it’s a compounded drug, most insurance companies will not pay for it, and it can run up to 1,000.00. Kratom is much cheaper and will not tear up your nose (Ketamine is worse than cocaine in your nose) or break your wallet. I’m in much better shape now than when I was taking Ketamine, Dilaudid, MS Contin, Valium, Tizanidine and Norco. I also was on methadone for pain. If it worked for me, it will work for anyone. I also have a genetic tolerance to all opiates, meaning I can take opiates that would floor a normal person. Even so, Kratom has broken the chains that kept me in fear constantly. Fear of being sick, of the DEA taking away my meds, etc. I feel better than I have in twenty years. I’m praying for your health and pain relief. Trust me, this is the way out! Lori Zambrana McIntosh

      3. Hi Renee,

        I am in Washington state and went thru Ketimine infusions with my Neurologist. After the first treatment, I cried on the way home experiencing pain relief for the first time in decades. When monitored by a physician, it is quite safe. Unfortunately, it was quite costly and I could not continue treatments, but I experienced significant relief for several months after each quarterly treatment. I would highly recocmmend discussing this option with their Physician to anyone.

      4. Ketamine doesn’t do much for pain, but it “resets” the opioid receptors to reverse tolerance buildup (in Europe it’s now standard that instead of increasing opiate after tolerance buildup to get ketamine treatment every few month (½ day in the hospital) to restore opiate sensitivity (similar effect can be achieved with dextrometrophan=Robutussin, but weaker)

    5. I understand completely, Sarah. I’m 54 yrs old and have been going to PM Group for 7 yrs. My regiment included 30 mg oxycodone 6 times a day plus 350mg Soma three times a day. Three days before my appt. in Oct I received a call telling me he’s no longer there and the doc that took over isn’t taking over his patients. Imagine my surprise! It takes at least a couple of months to get into a pm group. They did provide me with one month refills. With any luck I may get in I early December with another group. In the interim I decided to try kratom. I just received my supply of white Borneo and enhanced maeng da. I previously bought some capsules from a head store and they did not work at all. So don’t go that route if you can help it. It almost caused me not to try it ever again. I will let you know back on this post if it works for me.

  27. Hello,
    Im new to Kratom use & have several different strains but have not felt any pain relief yet. I have kidney cancer & a 10 yr old child. My prescription opiods really knock out the pain but they knock me out as well. I want to be able to spend quality time with my daughter & not be knocked out by drugs or in so much pain that Im miserable to be around. I would really appreciate any suggestions on how best to use kratom. I feel like Im running out of time & I want to do more than just exist.

    1. Hi I’m so sorry to hear. Do you know how much you took? I’ve been told a scale is the best way to measure but people use measuring spoons, starting with a half teaspoon wait an hour see how you feel then try more if needed.
      It needs to be on an empty stomach so first thing in the morning is best I have read that you need to mix it with lemon juice to release the alkaloids
      There are instruction on the internet

    2. Hi there. I see this post is kind of old but I wanted to comment anyway. I started using kratom about 6 months ago and have a long history of back issues so I understand trying to knock out that pain. I tried several different strains and while they did work to an extent I still hurt so bad but I bought some Golden Bali and used it with just 2 alieve and that was my potion from then on. The alieve by itself didn’t work right and neither did the kratom but a small dose of otc meds with the Golden Bali worked great. Although sometimes it don’t. Sometimes I just hurt and nothing stops it. But I know for a fact I can’t the relief from narcotics that I get from this. I have tried that road. This mix lasts most of an entire day for me and I get 0 negative side effects from it. It really has changed my pain and my entire life. I’m awake and productive with little pain. God bless. Hope you find what you need

  28. P.S. It’s hard to say what strain would be best for you! I would just experiment, but start out with small doses on everything until you see how you react to it. Good luck!

    1. Yes I think you’re correct. When I first started I tried most of the strains and used all sorts of doses. Found that I love white borneo, and really enjoy 2 level teaspoons full. I’m from the uk and unfortunately I started using Kratom when it became illegal here, but there’s great venders in Europe I use. Karli

      1. Care to share the vendor info? Im up in the air about choosing the right vendor and need a little experienced knowledge 🙂

      2. I use Red Horned for pain and it is fantastic. Start slow as it can cause stomach upset. All Kratom is high in fiber so make sure you are drinking plenty of fluids or you will back up. I had back surgery 5 discs fused and I have not had to take opiates since going on Red Horn. I tried Maeng Da and several others but nothing has touched Red Horn.

        1. Hi Kim, I am new to kratom and I don’t know which vendors are the best to order from. I too have a bad back with three failed back surgeries andI just made an order from Oregon kratom but haven’t used any yet. What vendor do you get your red horn from? I think most of the problem that people have with Kratom is not knowing which strain to use and which vendor to order from. As you know there is a lot of crap out there that doesn’t work and people get turned off by that. Any information you can provide would be helpful. I’m in tremendous pain and need help who is this process. Thank you.

  29. Exactly what I’m looking for! I’ve been searching for a clear explanation of the different strains and some information along side with it. Thanks for sharing!

  30. I need two answers asap. See I am about to go on a missions project that is three months. The first month due to the DEA I will only be allowed 2 qweeks worth,when if I was to stay home i would get a months worth. WHAT is the most powerful kartom for pain. Also, I have a hard time sleeping when I have so much on my mind and this mission project with do it so what is the best kratom to help me get some sleep.

  31. call or text me I have info for you 970 618 0401

  32. hello
    I have answers and some questions for you on kratom. you can text me at 970-618-0401 or call

  33. Can anyone help me find a good online supplier? Also I have no idea what strain to use. I’ve got many things going on in my head so I probably need a mixture. I suffer from severe anxiety and have just recently taken myself off benzodiazepines because I’m tired of feeling trapped by them, but I have panic attacks all day now. I also am ADHD and about a month ago stopped Adderrall, so I need something that will give me energy but also not put me in a panic. (If that makes any sense) Then lastly, I was on heroin about a year ago, I don’t want to go back to doing it but I suffer with so much pain that I get scared. I’ve got 3 herniated discs in my back and I’m constantly hurting. So I’m kind of a mess, obviously, lol but I’m hoping someone can shed some light on this for me because I’d really like to try kratom and not be dependent on all these pharmaceutical pills. Thank you!

    1. I will check I’ve been using it for about a month or two now I’ve tried different strands if you want something that up you for depression for anxiety there is one that’s like that I will look for you or do you want one that’s like a sedative antidepressant and pain killer cuz there’s different blends have dibs different mixtures for pain chronic pain anxiety PTSD I will look for you and get back to you

    2. I just read your question/comment in the Kratom forum. Your situation sounds incredibly like mine w a few variances. I’d like to know what you found out and if anything has worked out for you. I have Bipolar, I’m on a variety of medication that cause major drowsiness. I was put on Ritalin a year ago but because of an Adderral addiction many many years ago, I have a very high tolerance. I am looking for an alternative that will give me the energy to compensate for the days when I am out of my Ritalin. But have no idea what strain or the amount that would be appropriate to gain the stimulant effect and NOT the sedative effect. I have 5 children, my life requires me to be active and on top of things. The depression associated w the Bipolar paralyzes me at times resulting in my inability to do what needs to be done for my family and therefore resulting in more guilt for hvng a mental illness that is oftentimes out of my control. I would appreciate and be thankful for any advice in this area

      1. I mix alittle red md in with some white md, the white gives you the energy while the red gives you the pain relief, always start small, if you don’t” feel” it after about 45minutes try another small dose. The white gets me talking too, sometimes I’m the quiet person in the room, but the white opens you up. Also check out kratom on reddit, a lot of good advice there

        1. Green vein in the morning. Mix a good red, Bali works best for me, in the afternoon. Then finish with a
          red when it’s time to get the kids down. White could be good in the morning, but small doses of green is better for bipolar. When you mix green and red go easy. Check reddit to help find a good, reliable vendors.

    3. Toss me an add on facebook – Kenneth McKrish

      1. Hi Kenneth,

        I have a broken neck and him taking a break from oxycodone. I like the euphoria and pain relief, though, but not the consequences of the cycle. Could you recommend or possibly send me a sample of something equal to or as good?? Have been on Kratom now for about four weeks from a vendor. But I’m learning a lot as I go 😲! It sounds like you are an expert & Know what you are talking about!

        Looking forward to hearing from you,
        Pam Moeller

        I’m going to send you an FB request!

    4. Hi K,
      I’m speechless by your post. Let me know if I still had a chance to help you out of your problems. I’ll send you kratom.

      1. I too wouldn’t like information I’m new to this and have been under a great pain mgt. Dr for years but really want to know what is best for pain and anxiety

      2. Hey. I’m a 24yo with disc/back problems since age 16. Been hooked on marijuana since 18. Do you think kratom would be good for me? Could I get sent a sample? Thanks

      3. Kenneth, being a chronic pain sufferer for close to 2 decades, and 2 back surgeries later, I’d love to try Kratom. I sent you a friend request. I also suffer from GADS. It’s a double whammy. Anxiety makes pain 10 times worse. Any info you can give me would be very welcome. TY!

    5. I’d like to send you some kratom to try. Please add me on facebook – Kenneth McKrish

      1. Good morning Kenneth, I just observed that you are a Kratom vendor,, and I have a few questions about Kratom as I am very naive as to the different strains and the effects of each strain, so any and all input/advice would be greatly appreciated!
        About me: I am a 45 year old Caucasian male with multiple health issues, including thoracic cancer, multiple sclerosis, along with a failed back surgery regarding my right scapula, and right rotator cuff.
        Long story short, I have been treated with a high degree of opiates throughout the past 14 years, and needless to say I am extremely tolerant to the effects of pain medication. To cut to the chase, I am needing a strain(s) of Kratom to help with pain, and to help with sleep at night, but also a strain for energy during the day.
        Again any advice would be much appreciated, I need to make the jump from opiates to Kratom, and I am nervous as to whether or not it will be effective for me?!
        Thank you! sincerely, John S

      2. Kenneth can you recommend what strain should be used to help with Suboxone WD?

        1. Any place to but it online that legit and reasonably priced? I would like to try it for my depression and migraines.

          1. Buy*

          2. Hi, Lisa. (:

            I’m pretty new to kratom, as well. Not sure if you’re still looking for an online place to purchase kratom from, but someone recommended “Gaia Ethnobotanical”;; to me. I like all the product options/prices, so far. I like that they have sample packages you can try – like, I just got (05) 01 oz. packs of individual strains (powder form) I picked out – for U$25.00 (total, not each pack). With MY situation/pain/insomnia/migraines/fibro/arthritis/&c., I don’t CARE if I get ‘knocked out’ or not. For ME sleeping/whatever thru pain; not having to be ‘aware’ during pain; is a bonus, not a problem. Tho, so far, I haven’t had that with anything that was suggested to me – Red Bali, Gold Bali, Red Dragon, Yellow Vietnam; and capsules called KALM that are supposed to help with my insomnia. Aaand, instead of ‘teaspoons’, it was recommended that I take (01)-(03) grams to start with…..but, again, that’s just me. Just suggestions/recommendations I, personally, received.

            Not sure if that helps you – or, anyone else! – but, I really do hope so. ;P

            Luck! (:

            P.S. They also have an email addy, and someone who, generally, seems to respond to questions pretty quickly – doesn’t leave ya hangin’ out there swingin’! (:

      3. I’m interested in trying some for constant back pain please help

      4. Kenneth, I am glad to hear that you Are the expert on kratom. Here is my situation I was a professional bull rider for 14 years, I have broken about every bone you can break I go to a pain clinic once a month for medication but I run out and I enjoy how I feel while I am on oxycodone that’s why I run out. What strain would you recommend that I try to not only stop my pain but also give me the high that the oxycodone gives

        1. Red Vein Bali for me, so far….

        2. Hey Mike:

          Bet you rode in my city, San Angelo Tx! Use Red Bali. I was on Dilaudid, MS Contin, methadone, Ketamine and Valium. I also was taking Vyvanse and Adderal for ADD. This stuff helps with EVERYTHING! No more running out, panic attacks and kicking the sheets for days because you did run out, or explaining to the doc why your tox screen shows no meds! I swear you won’t be sick ever again! Lori Zambrana McIntosh

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